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  1. #41
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
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    Home UK Midlands / Boat Croatia
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    Default Re: Hitler couldn't "sink" it, but the MCA will

    Quote Originally Posted by halcyon View Post
    Would you like to quantify that statement.

    Brian
    I could give you some specifications if that helps:

    Single piston drum brakes on a 2 tonne vehicle. Servo is an optional extra.

    Steering so heavy that a typical woman would barely be able to turn the wheel. Also wanders hopelessly at A road speeds.

    Pathetic low output headlights, necessitated by 35A alternator.

    Tubed crossply tyres with no sidewall flex and rock hard tread which are more just as likely to slip sideways in the wet as actually go around the corner. At least they last for 50k miles.

    Richard
    Last edited by RichardS; 18-07-19 at 21:12.

  2. #42
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Where life is good
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    13,701

    Default Re: Hitler couldn't "sink" it, but the MCA will

    Quote Originally Posted by Elecglitch View Post
    ....
    I'd hope that a coach of similar vintage would be prohibited from plying for trade, for much the same reasons as the boat under discussion.
    There is a slight difference between a coach on todays overloaded roads with vehicles able to drive at over 100mph and a river with boats moving at a sedate 10mph.

    The reality of the Herald and other ferries that have sunk is that people get trapped innside and have no way of getting out..
    Life is too short to drink bad wine.

  3. #43
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    1,649

    Default Re: Hitler couldn't "sink" it, but the MCA will

    Quote Originally Posted by Tomahawk View Post
    There is a slight difference between a coach on todays overloaded roads with vehicles able to drive at over 100mph and a river with boats moving at a sedate 10mph.

    The reality of the Herald and other ferries that have sunk is that people get trapped innside and have no way of getting out..
    Yes indeed, the prospect of drowning on a motorway is significantly lower, well spotted, go to the top of the class.

  4. #44
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    Sail on the Medway, Kent from Chatham Maritime Marina
    Posts
    1,861

    Default Re: Hitler couldn't "sink" it, but the MCA will

    Quote Originally Posted by JumbleDuck View Post
    I believe that Abel's were supposed to re-use the keel but decided not to off their own bat and without realising the consequences.
    That I believe is correct. It was done for the structural integrity of the hull, which was very important.
    If my foresight was as good as my hindsight, I would be a multi-millionaire.

  5. #45
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Cornwall
    Posts
    8,796

    Default Re: Hitler couldn't "sink" it, but the MCA will

    Quote Originally Posted by RichardS View Post
    I could give you some specifications if that helps:

    Single piston drum brakes on a 2 tonne vehicle. Servo is an optional extra.

    Steering so heavy that a typical woman would barely be able to turn the wheel. Also wanders hopelessly at A road speeds.

    Pathetic low output headlights, necessitated by 35A alternator.

    Tubed crossply tyres with no sidewall flex and rock hard tread which are more just as likely to slip sideways in the wet as actually go around the corner. At least they last for 50k miles.

    Richard
    In my days designing trailer undergear, RD had a long wheelbase Landie for testing at MIRA proving ground, we had to achieve 60%g stop with overrun rakes and 3,000 kg of horsebox behind, Okay some fade tests today could be difficult for the beast, but it could stop, maybe not the same driving experience.

    Steering, we never had power steering as standard till the 80's, just lazy to-day. But with the horsebox it did fine round the ride and handling circuit, what they were built for. Now if you want to try the handling, steering and crossply tyres, stick 1500 kg of compressor on the back and go round MIRA cross country track, 2 or 3 mile long.

    Back in the 60's people would have killed for a 35 amp alternator, it was dynamoes then, there was still Ford Pop's on the road with 6 volt electrics. We all had pathetic low output bulbs, some worse than others, but I still drove overnight from Walsall to Cornwall, with virtually no Motorway.

    Just changing times, plus the Landie was built as a workhorse, not for comfort.


    Brian
    Kddpowercentre VASR charge

  6. #46
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    On the Celtic Fringe
    Posts
    14,147

    Default Re: Hitler couldn't "sink" it, but the MCA will

    As a fee paying passenger I actually want to travel on a vessel/aircraft/bus/ motor car with all the latest safety specified kit! Remember the shocking facial injuries before the sorted windscreens?

    Looking at the Golden Globe Race does that not illustrate very effectively the risks involved in using old technology in, I admit, an extreme way.

  7. #47
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Where life is good
    Posts
    13,701

    Default Re: Hitler couldn't "sink" it, but the MCA will

    The accident record of the Medway Queen and the 100 year old Thames pleasure boat featured on the BBC news yesterday evening are pretty good.

    Indeed I am always more worried on a ferry than on riverboat. Take a look at the dining rooms on a modern ferry and imagine that space at 30degrees with all the loose tables and furniture. Then think of it as a vertical space with everyone in the space standing on one wall.. they would be five deep!
    Life is too short to drink bad wine.

  8. #48
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Medway
    Posts
    19,735

    Default Re: Hitler couldn't "sink" it, but the MCA will

    Quote Originally Posted by JumbleDuck View Post
    Oh, won't it be great when we are out of the EU and back to traditional light-touch UK regulation?
    You mean back to polluting beaches with sewage and stuff like that.

  9. #49
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Home UK Midlands / Boat Croatia
    Posts
    19,401

    Default Re: Hitler couldn't "sink" it, but the MCA will

    Quote Originally Posted by halcyon View Post
    In my days designing trailer undergear, RD had a long wheelbase Landie for testing at MIRA proving ground, we had to achieve 60%g stop with overrun rakes and 3,000 kg of horsebox behind, Okay some fade tests today could be difficult for the beast, but it could stop, maybe not the same driving experience.

    Steering, we never had power steering as standard till the 80's, just lazy to-day. But with the horsebox it did fine round the ride and handling circuit, what they were built for. Now if you want to try the handling, steering and crossply tyres, stick 1500 kg of compressor on the back and go round MIRA cross country track, 2 or 3 mile long.

    Back in the 60's people would have killed for a 35 amp alternator, it was dynamoes then, there was still Ford Pop's on the road with 6 volt electrics. We all had pathetic low output bulbs, some worse than others, but I still drove overnight from Walsall to Cornwall, with virtually no Motorway.

    Just changing times, plus the Landie was built as a workhorse, not for comfort.

    Brian
    I agree with you. Our memories play tricks on us though and we get used to what we have now. I'm guessing that it's a few years since you drove the Landy and that since then you've driven modern cars. Get back in an old Landy now on today's busy roads and you wonder whether it's your body strength which has deserted you.

    Richard

  10. #50
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Location
    South Devon
    Posts
    289

    Default Re: Hitler couldn't "sink" it, but the MCA will

    Quote Originally Posted by RichardS View Post
    I agree with you. Our memories play tricks on us though and we get used to what we have now. I'm guessing that it's a few years since you drove the Landy and that since then you've driven modern cars. Get back in an old Landy now on today's busy roads and you wonder whether it's your body strength which has deserted you.

    Richard
    Point of order, I drive Landies all the time. My 'daily' is a 20 year old (modern!) landrover, but I also drive Wolfs, 'Fenders and Series on a regular basis. I used to have a S2a. Driven within their limits they're fine. It's when the *driver* forgets that they aren't a modern car that the issues arise. Also, your point about 'series' brakes - I have 3 comments:-

    1) Mine were always top notch and it would stop surprisingly quickly once (did need a good shove tho' - see point 3). After the first stop it needed a few minutes to cool the brakes, a second sharp stop shortly after the first would start to see signs of fade.
    2) Braking technique is important - good braking is turd shaped, that is tapered at both ends. Slam on the brakes and you'll lock up (or trigger the ABS in a modern vehicle), and don't moderate the pressure as speed drops and the same will happen.
    3) Most people don't press the pedal hard enough - something recognised by (I think it was mercedes first) the industry and why modern cars are fitted with 'brake assist' which automatically applies the brakes if the system detects an emergency braking scenario (dunno about the latest systems, but the first used the rate of application of the brakes as the trigger I believe).

    Yes they lack secondary safety features and some of their primary safety features aren't brilliant - but kept within their limits there really aren't any problems with them.

    It's also possible to get into a whole argument about risk homeostasis and the dangers of making modern cars more safe, which would be terribly dull.

    Anyway, back to boats...

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