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  1. #61
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Boat - Clyde, Home - Overlooking the Tamar
    Posts
    4,081

    Default Re: What would you have done?

    Quote Originally Posted by JumbleDuck View Post
    OK then ... with how long to go before impact do you consider that a risk of collision exists?
    Identification of the risk of collision is often long before the concluded probability of collision. My view is that a complex balance of factors (including factors such as sea state, ability of vessel(s) to manoeuvre, sea room, other vessels in proximity and their likely action) considered in aggregate will determine one’s personal decision point as to when to take collision avoidance action.

    I personally had this mental process severely tested at the north end of Kilbrannan Sound just the week before last. There was plenty of sea room and no other vessels in proximity. My vessel was motor sailing so could easily manoeuvre. I would say the two vessels were less than 30 seconds from collision when I took collision avoidance action.

  2. #62
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    SW Scotland
    Posts
    19,549

    Default Re: What would you have done?

    Quote Originally Posted by RichardS View Post
    When it gets to the point where I won't be able to get out of the way with at least twice the length of the target boat between me and it?
    That's quite elegant,
    "Seamen are always wanting to do things the proper way; and I like to do them my way."

  3. #63
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    West London
    Posts
    2,637

    Default Re: What would you have done?

    Quote Originally Posted by Robih View Post
    Identification of the risk of collision is often long before the concluded probability of collision. My view is that a complex balance of factors (including factors such as sea state, ability of vessel(s) to manoeuvre, sea room, other vessels in proximity and their likely action) considered in aggregate will determine one’s personal decision point as to when to take collision avoidance action.

    I personally had this mental process severely tested at the north end of Kilbrannan Sound just the week before last. There was plenty of sea room and no other vessels in proximity. My vessel was motor sailing so could easily manoeuvre. I would say the two vessels were less than 30 seconds from collision when I took collision avoidance action.
    Was your cone hoisted?

  4. #64
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Boat - Clyde, Home - Overlooking the Tamar
    Posts
    4,081

    Default Re: What would you have done?

    Quote Originally Posted by scotty123 View Post
    Was your cone hoisted?
    No. As it happened it didn't matter. The motor boat approached fast (25kts?) from our port passing to our starboard across our bows. If we were a motor boat he was the give way boat and if we were a sailing boat same applies. We were on starboard tack with a big genoa, a cone wouldn't have been visible.

  5. #65
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    West London
    Posts
    2,637

    Default Re: What would you have done?

    Quote Originally Posted by Robih View Post
    No. As it happened it didn't matter. The motor boat approached fast (25kts?) from our port passing to our starboard across our bows. If we were a motor boat he was the give way boat and if we were a sailing boat same applies. We were on starboard tack with a big genoa, a cone wouldn't have been visible.
    Of course it "mattered", you are applying collision regs as if only the other vessel was at fault, in your opinion.
    Not sure 'pick & choose' applies to IRPCS, they are not a curate's egg.

  6. #66
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Boat - Clyde, Home - Overlooking the Tamar
    Posts
    4,081

    Default Re: What would you have done?

    Quote Originally Posted by scotty123 View Post
    Of course it "mattered", you are applying collision regs as if only the other vessel was at fault, in your opinion.
    Not sure 'pick & choose' applies to IRPCS, they are not a curate's egg.
    I have not apportioned fault, you did that. If you prefer I will exchange the word “matter” for “alter the required actions of the two vessels”

    Why do we have to be so snotty in correspondence about these things? It is so predictable and very dull, I will not respond further.

  7. #67
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Home UK Midlands / Boat Croatia
    Posts
    19,805

    Default Re: What would you have done?

    Quote Originally Posted by scotty123 View Post
    Of course it "mattered", you are applying collision regs as if only the other vessel was at fault, in your opinion.
    Not sure 'pick & choose' applies to IRPCS, they are not a curate's egg.
    Robih is correct. According to his post, he was the stand on vessel whether he was sailing or motor-sailing. If the other vessel was give way vessel under either of those conditions and it didn't give way, then the other vessel is 100% at fault as regards not giving way.

    Richard

  8. #68
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    37,732

    Default Re: What would you have done?

    Quote Originally Posted by RichardS View Post
    When it gets to the point where I won't be able to get out of the way with at least twice the length of the target boat between me and it?

    Richard
    You can easily get within 1/2 a length of a crosschannel ferry while sat in the pub around here....
    It's very hard to make rigid rules about how much CPA is enough, the big variable is how sure are you about what the other bugger is doing.

  9. #69
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    37,732

    Default Re: What would you have done?

    Quote Originally Posted by Robih View Post
    No. As it happened it didn't matter. The motor boat approached fast (25kts?) from our port passing to our starboard across our bows. If we were a motor boat he was the give way boat and if we were a sailing boat same applies. We were on starboard tack with a big genoa, a cone wouldn't have been visible.
    A vessel doing more than 3x your speed is just going to steer around you, even if it's me in a fast dinghy and you are give way.
    There is no risk of collision if the fast agile vessel is not driven by an idiot, therefore the whole thing is a colregs non-encounter.

  10. #70
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Surrey
    Posts
    3,545

    Default Re: What would you have done?

    Submit a chirp report. There is no doubt that it will have the desired effect.

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