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  1. #71
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    Nov 2009
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    Default Re: What would you have done?

    Quote Originally Posted by lw395 View Post
    You can easily get within 1/2 a length of a crosschannel ferry while sat in the pub around here....
    It's very hard to make rigid rules about how much CPA is enough, the big variable is how sure are you about what the other bugger is doing.
    A pub is always stand on so that's reasonably clear cut under ColRegs.

    Richard

  2. #72
    Join Date
    May 2007
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    37,715

    Default Re: What would you have done?

    Quote Originally Posted by RichardS View Post
    A pub is always stand on so that's reasonably clear cut under ColRegs.

    Richard
    But should the Lively Lady or the Victory give way to the Bridge Tavern?
    The American is always going to be in the wrong?

  3. #73
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    West Sussex / Hants
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    28,660

    Default Re: What would you have done?

    Quote Originally Posted by RichardS View Post
    A pub is always stand on so that's reasonably clear cut under ColRegs.

    Richard
    I've sometimes thought the Still and West a bit vulnerable to any ferry or ship as they trundle by, stand on or not...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cq-ahulpV4k
    Anderson 22 Owners Association - For info please ask here or PM me.

  4. #74
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Boat - Clyde, Home - Overlooking the Tamar
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    4,081

    Default Re: What would you have done?

    Quote Originally Posted by lw395 View Post
    A vessel doing more than 3x your speed is just going to steer around you, even if it's me in a fast dinghy and you are give way.
    There is no risk of collision if the fast agile vessel is not driven by an idiot, therefore the whole thing is a colregs non-encounter.
    Skipper was seemingly not at the helm or on watch as he approached us. His head popped up after he had passed across our bows and we had taken avoiding action, he looked at us and gave a wave. The vis was poor, he wouldn’t have seen us if he’d had a quick look round before going below to put the kettle on.

  5. #75
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    Sep 2010
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    West Sussex / Hants
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    28,660

    Default Re: What would you have done?

    We were off St Malo once when a small coaster came past the other way heading north - I could see straight through both open wheelhouse doors, nobody there...

    Then again we once followed a Contessa 28 with windvane attached - as soon as they cleared the Needles the young couple engaged the windvane and ' retired below '.

    The boat did two complete 360's with the sheets pinned in but no-one appeared on deck, I trust they had a jolly time
    Anderson 22 Owners Association - For info please ask here or PM me.

  6. #76
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    West London
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    2,620

    Default Re: What would you have done?

    Quote Originally Posted by RichardS View Post
    Robih is correct. According to his post, he was the stand on vessel whether he was sailing or motor-sailing. If the other vessel was give way vessel under either of those conditions and it didn't give way, then the other vessel is 100% at fault as regards not giving way.

    Richard
    The point I was making, is him ignoring regs, by not hoisting a cone, then pontificating about another vessel also potentially ignoring them. You cannot choose which rules suit only you.

  7. #77
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    Default Re: What would you have done?

    Quote Originally Posted by scotty123 View Post
    The point I was making, is him ignoring regs, by not hoisting a cone, then pontificating about another vessel also potentially ignoring them. You cannot choose which rules suit only you.
    The rules are not equivalent, which is why virtually no-one raises a cone and I am not aware that the breaching of that rule has ever caused a single accident. The breaching of the "give way" rules has caused many deaths at sea and is clearly many orders of magnitude more important. We don't actually know whether the OP had a cone raised or not but, either way, it is not relevant to the incident under discussion.

    Richard

  8. #78
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    Feb 2007
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    West London
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    2,620

    Default Re: What would you have done?

    Quote Originally Posted by RichardS View Post
    The rules are not equivalent, which is why virtually no-one raises a cone and I am not aware that the breaching of that rule has ever caused a single accident. The breaching of the "give way" rules has caused many deaths at sea and is clearly many orders of magnitude more important. We don't actually know whether the OP had a cone raised or not but, either way, it is not relevant to the incident under discussion.

    Richard
    He has already admitted he didn't have one hoisted, the fact that "I am not aware", is not relevant either, one cannot pick & choose which suits you personally. Rules/regulations are there to prevent misunderstandings/confusion, a cone would have confirmed he was a motor powered vessel & helped in remedial action by give way vessel. The powerboat skipper, might not even have been aware, which way the sailboat was even pointing, considering their relative speeds & poor visibility reported, a cone might have helped clarify this.
    Last edited by scotty123; 17-08-19 at 10:47.

  9. #79
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    2,835

    Default Re: What would you have done?

    Quote Originally Posted by RichardS View Post
    Robih is correct. According to his post, he was the stand on vessel whether he was sailing or motor-sailing. If the other vessel was give way vessel under either of those conditions and it didn't give way, then the other vessel is 100% at fault as regards not giving way.

    Richard
    Bit of a Catch 22. If there was no cone visible to the motor vessel then my reading of the IRPCS is that he should assume the yacht is sailing, in which case it is the stand on vessel and the motor vessel should keep clear. If there had been a collision and it came to court, how strong would motor boat's argument be "I thought he was motoring despite not showing a cone" ? (And even then he was the stand on vessel....)
    Would the court adjudge both parties at fault?

    As a mild drift, how many of us have ever used our motoring cones? The only time I have seen them in frequent use was in the Baltic, off Germany.

  10. #80
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    Nov 2009
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    Default Re: What would you have done?

    Quote Originally Posted by Resolution View Post
    Bit of a Catch 22. If there was no cone visible to the motor vessel then my reading of the IRPCS is that he should assume the yacht is sailing, in which case it is the stand on vessel and the motor vessel should keep clear. If there had been a collision and it came to court, how strong would motor boat's argument be "I thought he was motoring despite not showing a cone" ? (And even then he was the stand on vessel....)
    Would the court adjudge both parties at fault?

    As a mild drift, how many of us have ever used our motoring cones? The only time I have seen them in frequent use was in the Baltic, off Germany.
    "Even then he (the OP) was stand on vessel" so if there had been a collision the motor vessel would be 100% liable for not "giving way" under that section of ColRegs. No Catch 22, surely?

    Richard
    Last edited by RichardS; 17-08-19 at 10:44.

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