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  1. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Essex
    Posts
    22,441

    Default Re: Deliberately starting an anchor thread.

    First boat, 22', Danforth. I knew nothing about anchoring but managed on the East Coast, even at Orford (3kn stream).
    Second boat 26'. Danforth again. Fouled in fairway at Ramsholt where directed by HM and had to be cut off.
    Third boat 28'. 5lb Plough. never had any particular problem.
    Fourth and current boat 34'. 45lb CQR. Normally OK and now more skilled. Occasional failure to bite in Hamford Water (weed) and at the Rocks (firm stony bottom). In the last case the spare 10Kg Bruce bit instantly.
    Currently not inclined to worry about the gear, though would probably specify a new generation anchor if starting again.
    Far away is near at hand in images of elsewhere

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Hopefully somewhere warm
    Posts
    9,394

    Default Re: Deliberately starting an anchor thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by RupertW View Post
    Technique is almost everything, I think, but the last few percent must be the anchor type. And it would be good to have an anchor that set in a shorter distance than the 3-4 meters that the Delta takes.
    That's what the perceived wisdom was when I started full time cruising not that long ago. And that the cqr was the best game in town. Knew no different.

    Then came a new gen and everything changed, fling it over with a load of chain and stick it in reverse. Works pretty much every time, bang and down goes the bows, just go slow if it's rocky. Like night and day compared to the long since given away cqr.

    If technique is everything get a better hook

    (not actually quite as slap dash as that, make sure all the chain doesn't land on the hook)

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Bristol Channel
    Posts
    777

    Default Re: Deliberately starting an anchor thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by johnalison View Post
    Fourth and current boat 34'. 45lb CQR. Normally OK and now more skilled. Occasional failure to bite in Hamford Water (weed) and at the Rocks (firm stony bottom). In the last case the spare 10Kg Bruce bit instantly.
    Currently not inclined to worry about the gear, though would probably specify a new generation anchor if starting again.
    So a 10kg bruce (22lb) is better than a massive 45lb CQR. Tells me all I suspected about CQRs.
    A boat is for going places

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    currently in Pto Montt, Chile
    Posts
    369

    Default Re: Deliberately starting an anchor thread.

    What I have and some thorts.....

    When I bought her 25 years ago my present boat came with a 'genuine' CQR. Over time I have accumulated a few more.
    A spare Manson CQR clone which has lived under my bunk for 20 years and never been wet.
    A West Australian Swarbrick which is a fisherman style of a thing.
    A fortress which has lived under another bunk for almost as long... seemed like a good idea at the time.
    A small danforth with a bent shank, bought very cheaply, as a kedge... it gets a reasonable amount of use when nose in to jetties (Aust) or as part of a 4 line tie up (Chile).
    A Rocna as primary for the last 12 years.

    The Swarbrick has been used twice in Bass Strait and East Coast Tasmania on hard sand where the CQR showed absolutely no interest in setting. I have heard that in South Australia they sharpen the 'tips'.... it seems they have a lot of hard sand.
    The original CQR was traded for a small amount of engineering work. In my opinion good for what it was designed for ... mud... not much good in heavy kelp which is a feature in Chile. Replaced with the Rocna.

    The Rocna.... excellent in heavy kelp and everything else I have used it in.
    'Shifted our berth' with it once... we moved about a boat length and then stopped.... not sure if the anchor moved or we were just straightening the chain in the kelp. That was in 60 knot rachas... french 'expedition yacht' Podorange dragged straight past us in the next puff and kept on dragging into deeper water... entire crew on the beach... didn't they move fast!..... I have a photo of her somewhere .... has a danforth sort of an anchor... looks undersized.

  5. #15
    photodog is offline Lord High Commander of Upper Broughton and Gunthorpe
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    34,838

    Default Re: Deliberately starting an anchor thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by oldmanofthehills View Post
    I dislike marinas so anchor in quiet or not so quiet spots quite a lot.

    I have lost one bruce fouled on barge mooring chain but retrieved from the thameside at LW.
    I have lost one bruce when chain wrapped round keel and I had to cut it and its pickup buoy free to move. I buoyed the chain but it pulled under.
    I lost another bruce when it jambed in underwater reef. Lifeboat offered to try for me and started to pull its bows under.
    I bought 3rd boat with CQR and dragged badly in Blue Anchor mud. Bought Bruce but dragged ferryside in 2kts tide and saw 50m long furrow in the hard sand at low tide. Thats why its called still a plough!
    Bought fourth boat and got anchor dragging in Barry Harbour as not enough scope to cope with 12m rise. My bad.
    Got Bruce anchor dragging slightly off Tresco in exposed F6, so set CQR as 2nd anchor. Bought Manson Supreme as bad weather backup as could clearly see why it would work better. Sat out F8+ and slept well with chain snubbed
    Got fifth boat with CQR and had irritating anchor setting issues at Edgecomb which delayed me getting to eating house. Bought Bruce for that boat and also moved Manson Supreme to newer boat. Sent CQR to use as kedge on old boat.

    Conclusion CQRs are rubbish in soft mud and not brilliant in penetrating weed or very hard sand.
    Bruce are excellent in all mud and excellent in hard ground if you can get them to set. Only very very slightly better in weeds than CQR
    Manson Supreme are excellent in all conditions but overkill and dig up large weighty chunks of seafloor for removal at the bow roller.
    Tripping lines only work in calm waters, clear seas and maybe not even then and dont half tangle things up on occasions.
    You know you donít have to buy the boat as well as the anchor?

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Sydney, Australia.
    Posts
    5,271

    Default Re: Deliberately starting an anchor thread.

    We would have to say that if you use a CQR with caution and care it is surprisingly good, but buy a genuine one (which I understand you can buy very cheaply 2nd hand, maybe some people would pay to take theirs away). However they need care and skill (or in our case, luck) to have them set properly. Our CQRs have only dragged once - the tide rose, the scope was then too short, and we arrived at the beach to see her drifting off toward Macau - some lovely MoBo owner ferried me out (he seemed to smile a lot!) We had a Manson clone CQR. In the drop forged shank it said it was 45lb (I recall) more recently when I developed my fetish I weighed it - it weighed 55lb. I mentioned this to the then MD, he laughed and said I was lucky - I was not impressed (as the extra 10lb might have been in the wrong place). it dragged a lot (and gives the CQR a bad name). We have tried most of the others, genuine and copy Bruce, Rocna, Supreme, Ultra, Delta. Kobra. We now own an Excel (both aluminium and steel), Spade both aluminium and steel, and a family of three Fortress. I also have a Mantus, so when I'm critical I know exactly how they work (or not) and a couple of Tern.

    And I'm being given a Vulcan to have a look at - that is a real turn-up for the books!

    As is well known - we now only use aluminium anchors.

    I cannot differentiate between the Rocna, Spade, Excel, Supreme, Ultra - except the Rocna and Supreme bring up a bucket load of seabed and the Excel and Spade are far better than the others in weed. I have not tried the Ultra in weed. These anchors are easy to set - idiot proof - which is a good thing. Sadly they do cost - and those retired CQRs are so cheap. Though I have used Bruce and Delta I cannot say I am 'experienced' but enough people who have used them whose skills I can admire and they appear to have the reassuring attributes of the CQR.

    None of these anchors work in soupy mud - our Excel dragged for some considerable distance - but Fortress excels under those conditions (and is also excellent in sand).

    The 2nd Generation anchors are easy to set and are reliable, the first generation anchors are much more difficult to set and when set, our experience with the CQR is that they are reliable and have sufficient hold.

    The advice from the US and HM Navy for hard seabeds is - sharpen the fluke. Visions of erks(?) on the bow of aircraft carriers sharpening anchor flukes

    We don't use marinas, where we go they are like dragon's teeth anyway. Most annoying - marinas appear to have been built over some of the best anchoring grounds.

    To summarise our experiences - no anchor is perfect, they are all a compromise. If you know their strengths and weaknesses and accept their foibles - most are reliable (though as they are idiot proof and I prefer a glass of wine to patiently setting a CQR) - so the 2nd Gen anchors get my vote - they are worth the extra money - but not critical.

    Which begs the question - if the first gen anchors can be reliable and they have half the hold of the 2nd gen anchors but the same sized anchor (whether 1st or 2nd gen) is recommended for a yacht - why the oversizing of the 2nd gen anchors. Was there this clarion call from the armchair when people wanted to buy a new 1st gen anchor - or is it simply an 'internet' thing (and that fear factor to which Minn aludes).

    Jonathan

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Bristol Channel
    Posts
    777

    Default Re: Deliberately starting an anchor thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Neeves View Post
    Which begs the question - if the first gen anchors can be reliable and they have half the hold of the 2nd gen anchors but the same sized anchor (whether 1st or 2nd gen) is recommended for a yacht - why the oversizing of the 2nd gen anchors. Was there this clarion call from the armchair when people wanted to buy a new 1st gen anchor - or is it simply an 'internet' thing (and that fear factor to which Minn aludes). Jonathan
    I think the issue may be with smaller boats - by which I mean anything much less than 10m. Ration of boat size to anchor need does not scale well. Consider anchor size to boat weight on a freighter to see to effect. Larger anchors simply work better, so on a small boat you need an apparent oversize anchor to break deeply enough into the seabed or you need a better reasonable size anchor to get adequate results.

    Having then dragged on an apparently firmly set genuine 10kg CQR set in sand on a 26ft in a mere F4 gusting F5, I would never trust them except for lunch stops
    A boat is for going places

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    East coast UK. Mostly. Sometimes the Philippines
    Posts
    9,377

    Default Re: Deliberately starting an anchor thread.

    Hiscock remarks (“Cruising Under Sail”, 1st edition, top of page 184) that the minimum weight for a CQR is 30lbs, for this reason.

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Location
    A Member State of the European Union
    Posts
    5,460

    Default Re: Deliberately starting an anchor thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Minn View Post
    Hiscock remarks (“Cruising Under Sail”, 1st edition, top of page 184) that the minimum weight for a CQR is 30lbs, for this reason.
    And, as you can't buy a 30lb genuine CQR, the effective minimum is 35lb.

    He also says when anchoring it should be given plenty of chain straight away which is what I do.

    I watched someone making several attempts to anchor a Westerly Centaur in Studland Bay using a CQR several years ago and at each attempt he let out hardly any chain before motoring astern hard. Each time the anchor dragged and eventually he gave up and headed off towards Poole. Perhaps to buy a different kind of anchor? Or better still, a copy of Hiscocks' "Cruising Under Sail"!

    "Brexit: like watching a library being burned down by people who can't read"

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Emsworth Hants
    Posts
    12,467

    Default Re: Deliberately starting an anchor thread.

    We had CQR and every charter boat we sailed had one too, we chartered twor or three times a year for 10 years so it was a very large number of boats.

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