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  1. #31
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Bristol Channel
    Posts
    777

    Default Re: Deliberately starting an anchor thread.

    I regard the Bruce as 2nd generation, and they certainly fail to set on hard ground if they don't roll over, and can be poor in penetrating weed. (unless you regard fishermans as 1st, CQR as 2nd etc)

    Delta, Supreme, Spade, Rocna are all 3rd generation trying to address the 2nd generation problems to varying degrees by having anti-invert bars, sharpened points, weighted tips etc. Their only problem is fitting in the bow roller without damaging hull etc

    Various technical tests were carried out and though these may be ground dependant they certainly enable informed comparison. My impression was that this enabled some knowledgeable yotties to downsize anchors due to increased efficiency.
    A boat is for going places

  2. #32
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Caribbean
    Posts
    2,315

    Default Re: Deliberately starting an anchor thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by capnsensible View Post
    Well Im always up for some real life anchor stories having done it around a billion times......goes with the job.

    So, there we are, Mrs Sensible and me, second Atlantic circuit. Moody 33. Antigua Jolly Harbour. Now that can be a PITA to clear in and out of with a lw kind of attitude ( they will be numpty muppest buggering about or something) . So a top tip is to rock up abot 1540. All the officials are clockwatching ready for homeward bounders.

    Clear out and anchor outside ready for a dawn oclock departure.

    Lots of the Carib is crystal clear water and you can see if the anchor is set..... but a quick dive ets you cool if you have a hand windlass as we did at the time.

    However outside Jolly, the wonderful sand is stirred to very poor vis so a good look never goes amiss. So, nudge in towards shore at right angles. Our seafarer sounder goes a bit bonkers in shallows, so mostly local knowledge. Nice distance off, drop CQR and set. Lovely, transits cool. However, safety first, on fins and mask, hop in over stern and fin around to anchor. Odd? mmm. Well we got medium long keel and only draw 1.4m.

    Find anchor, well set. Stand up, water to knees. Wave to wife, 'reckon we're good, open wine.'

    Next morning around 0530, anchor up by hand, beautiful dawn, bound for St. Maarten.

    Anchoring is easy.
    Haha, good job you picked the best holding in the Caribbean, since you were using a CQR��.
    Jolly anchorage really is incredible holding. Its like setting your anchor in cement.

  3. #33
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Atlantic
    Posts
    20,449

    Default Re: Deliberately starting an anchor thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by geem View Post
    Haha, good job you picked the best holding in the Caribbean, since you were using a CQR��.
    Jolly anchorage really is incredible holding. Its like setting your anchor in cement.
    Suppose. The only other places I anchored aroud there was Trinida.d. And most of the Grenadines and St Vincent. St Lucia. Muddy off Rodney Bay maina btw. And Martinique. Guadaloupe. Antigua. The Saints. Dominica. Antigua. St. Kitts. Nevis. St Maarten and tin. St Barts. Quite a bit of the BVI..s. Culebra and St Thomas and others. And a fair bit in the Bahamas. Thats most of it, really. CQR. Sleep easy.

  4. #34
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Sydney, Australia.
    Posts
    5,271

    Default Re: Deliberately starting an anchor thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by oldmanofthehills View Post
    My impression was that this enabled some knowledgeable yotties to downsize anchors due to increased efficiency.
    I cannot believe I've read that

    Jonathan

    arbitrary classification

    CQR, Bruce, Delta - 1st generation, coincidentally all classified as HHP anchors

    Rocna, Supreme, Excel, Spade, Fortress, Ultra 2nd Generation and all classified as SHHP. I think Knox fits into the 2nd Gen, I'd put Kobra there as well with a caution on its shank strength.

    Bags of stones (Zoidberg excluded) are not much used, nor Fishermans - so being biased - I ignore them. I am sure there are others - but I have no experience of a genuine Danforth, Northhill etc etc
    Last edited by Neeves; 07-08-19 at 12:38.

  5. #35
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    East coast UK. Mostly. Sometimes the Philippines
    Posts
    9,377

    Default Re: Deliberately starting an anchor thread.

    The Northhill was held in high esteem by Bob Griffith (Ahwanee”). Unlike the CQR, which was used by RAF Sunderlands. it really was intended for flying boats. A real swine to stow and probably extinct now.

    Our Victorian forebears seem to have gone through a phase of being as obsessed with anchors as we are, but theirs were all variations on the Fisherman theme - the Trotman, which had hinged palms, etc.

    I notice that the CQRs sold by Lewmar have fabricated shanks; no more drop forging. Sic transit British Heavy Industry.
    Last edited by Minn; 07-08-19 at 13:04.

  6. #36
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Greenwich
    Posts
    7,329

    Default Re: Deliberately starting an anchor thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Neeves View Post
    I cannot believe I've read that

    Jonathan

    arbitrary classification

    CQR, Bruce, Delta - 1st generation, coincidentally all classified as HHP anchors

    Rocna, Supreme, Excel, Spade, Fortress, Ultra 2nd Generation and all classified as SHHP. I think Knox fits into the 2nd Gen, I'd put Kobra there as well with a caution on its shank strength.

    Bags of stones (Zoidberg excluded) are not much used, nor Fishermans - so being biased - I ignore them. I am sure there are others - but I have no experience of a genuine Danforth, Northhill etc etc
    It is arbitrary - how you can ignore all the Fisherman variations and then classify CQR and Delta as the same generation baffles me. Let’s stick to arguing merits of different options or we are angel pin counting.

  7. #37
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    SW Scotland
    Posts
    19,398

    Default Re: Deliberately starting an anchor thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Neeves View Post
    Which begs the question - if the first gen anchors can be reliable and they have half the hold of the 2nd gen anchors but the same sized anchor (whether 1st or 2nd gen) is recommended for a yacht - why the oversizing of the 2nd gen anchors. Was there this clarion call from the armchair when people wanted to buy a new 1st gen anchor - or is it simply an 'internet' thing (and that fear factor to which Minn aludes).
    Beats the hell out of me. If I ever buy an anchor more NG than my Fortress, I'll be buying it to get the same holding power as my 25lb CQR at half the weight.
    "Seamen are always wanting to do things the proper way; and I like to do them my way."

  8. #38
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    East coast UK. Mostly. Sometimes the Philippines
    Posts
    9,377

    Default Re: Deliberately starting an anchor thread.

    I have been poking about in my bookcase.

    The Hiscocks carried two 35lbs CQRs in Wanderer III, with 45 fathoms of 5/16” chain, no windlass.

    He records that they dragged twice, at English Harbour (q.v.!) in soft mud and at Ascension Island in volcanic cinders.

    HW Tilman carried a 60lbs CQR as his bower anchor with a 112lbs Fisherman, a 45lbs CQR and a 25lbs CQR as spares (we lost the last three getting off in Freemansund).

  9. #39
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Winter in Falmouth, summer on board Rampage.
    Posts
    5,124

    Default Re: Deliberately starting an anchor thread.

    Once upon a time, when I had a salary and a mobo, I used a 10kg Bruceish. Nice easy to stow anchor, used a dozen or so times a year in the Menai. Never a worry, but I was an anchoring neophyte then, knowing no better than to drop the hook in the water, let the tide take me back and that’s it.....
    The I got a pension and a sailing yacht (‘cos I could t afford the fuel any more). We had a 35lb CQR on chain (no idea how much when we set off, just ‘some’ chain). Used it a few times in the Menai, again not a problem but oh it was nice having an anchor winch....
    The next spring we were in Pollenca, Mallorca, and sat out a 60 knot two day blow. On the CQR plus a Danforthish. Quite exciting but it didn’t budge, fun getting the things back out of the hard sand/mud. And so it continued, down to Greece, back to Spain and eventually, back to Pollenca. And another blow,
    Could we get the wretched CQR to set? No we couldn’t. No idea why, but that was the last straw, as the thing had become more and more reluctant to set. So we got a 20kg Rocna. Oh, how different it is. Drop the thing in the water with enough chain, motor backwards and it sets. Just like that. It’s come out just once in a force 6 in Sardinia where we found we’d anchored in a deep weed bed.
    Our kedge is a Guardian and the only complaint I’ll make against it is it can be truly difficult to recover it in the dinghy once it’s had a bit of wind on it. So we’ve learnt that lesson and now use the anchor windlass to recover it as well as the bower.
    Our late, unlamented CQR now resides at the bottom of San Charles marina, after it fell off the foredeck as we spent the winter there. Best place for it.

  10. #40
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Bristol Channel
    Posts
    777

    Default Re: Deliberately starting an anchor thread.

    A 35lb (15kg) Hiscock used on his 30ft is large and even my slightly over size 11kg Supreme on my 31ft is smaller . What with 45 fathom (80 metres) of chain its all quite a weight and that much chain would not even fit in my chain locker.

    Some of my earlier comments on general undersizing of anchors were based on observing 7.5kg cqr copies on many marina based or charter boats most of which seem much bigger than my craft.
    A boat is for going places

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