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  1. #81
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    East coast UK. Mostly. Sometimes the Philippines
    Posts
    9,393

    Default Re: Clipper Ventures declares war on MCA & MAIB?

    Would it be very wrong of me to say that Boeing have been CATNAPing?

  2. #82
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Kernow
    Posts
    4,126

    Default Re: Clipper Ventures declares war on MCA & MAIB?

    Quote Originally Posted by JumbleDuck View Post
    It's a very good question. Some of the leg straps I have seen have been so flimsy that I suspect they are only there for marketing. It's not only the 1" webbing - it's the cheap and cheerful nylon clips.
    Which is why Clipper insist on metal clips on their lJ's, which also avoids the issues of clips being trodden on and potential split.

  3. #83
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Posts
    343

    Default Re: Clipper Ventures declares war on MCA & MAIB?

    Safety is a relative thing. Racing yachts around the world is a dangerous endeavour. People will get hurt and killed. Everyone who goes understands and accepts that.

    I have not seen anything in the MAIB reports that indicate that Clipper Ventures are negligent in taking safety seriously.

  4. #84
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Deale, MD, USA
    Posts
    1,720

    Default Re: Clipper Ventures declares war on MCA & MAIB?

    Quote Originally Posted by grumpy_o_g View Post
    I agree totally here. Surely just about all crotch straps are designed to stop the lifejacket riding up when the wearer is in the water so wouldn't be designed to have the full body weight as either SWL or from an ergonomic perspective? That's what I've always assumed and I really don't fancy being lifted out of freezing water by even a couple of 1" webbing straps - that would be about 100Kg on them if you lifted a largish bloke out. It's also a huge load on the heart of the casualty given temperatures and the angle he/she is being lifted at. Ignoring the angle of lift the LJ would need to be similar to a climbing harness - Petzl know more about this than most and this is their high-end offering (actually it looks a little like something from a specialist lingerie catalogue in that photo ). Something like that would be pretty wearable on board but it still needs something that can keep you attached to the boat and tow you on your back.

    https://www.petzl.com/GB/en/Sport/Harnesses/SITTA
    ]

    The strap width is not really a big problem. I took 6 UIAA fall factor 1 drops on this harness, with 1" straps widened to 1.5 inches in the bearing surface (no padding). The climbing rope was wrecked, but I was fine, with no discomfort.

    p1csmro0g91j5k163rh4k1vh71vg86.jpg

    The main advantages of this harness concept are:
    * Great comfort. Better than crotch straps. The crossover on the thigh slides, so that it never binds when you move. This feature also makes it very size adjustable.
    * Clips on to any chest harness or inflatable PFD combo.
    * Comfortable for suspension for long periods. You'll get board first.
    * Cannot slip out. Full body.

    [This is an open source idea. There is no commercial interest. I just wanted to show that a sailing harness could be full impact and still be very comfortable, unlike industrial harnesses. I see it as very practical for foredeck crew.]
    Last edited by thinwater; 18-08-19 at 14:24.

  5. #85
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    SW Scotland
    Posts
    19,408

    Default Re: Clipper Ventures declares war on MCA & MAIB?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dutch01527 View Post
    Safety is a relative thing. Racing yachts around the world is a dangerous endeavour. People will get hurt and killed. Everyone who goes understands and accepts that.
    Well, maybe. Paying clients thinking of taking a berth with Clipper - or any other operator, for that matter - need to know what the risks are and need to rely on the organisers to reduce and mitigate them to an acceptable level. That means "acceptable to the client" and needs a lot of information and a lot of trust.

    So ... how many injuries and deaths per race do Clipper tell their customers to expect?

    I have not seen anything in the MAIB reports that indicate that Clipper Ventures are negligent in taking safety seriously.
    My reading is that they take it seriously but are very reluctant to accept external review or spend money on external suggestions of how things could be improved.
    "Seamen are always wanting to do things the proper way; and I like to do them my way."

  6. #86
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Posts
    325

    Default Re: Clipper Ventures declares war on MCA & MAIB?

    I think the tether issue is a red herring. The dispute is not with the finding that the tether was inadequate, but with other elements of the investigation and its conclusions. Surely it is a matter of record whether there was a vessel in the vicinity which seems to be the primary grievance, and also whether Clipper had implemented the MAIB's recommendations at the time of publishing its report.

    Claims of collusion and a lack of impartiality will be much harder to prove and should be good fun for plenty of lawyers, but the battle is likely to be damaging to the reputations of all parties.

  7. #87
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    2,827

    Default Re: Clipper Ventures declares war on MCA & MAIB?

    Perhaps we will learn more during the action surrounding the departure of the next race, from St Katherine Dock, very shortly. (Some are ) Locking in this Thursday afternoon, for those who want to see them display their boat handling skills.

  8. #88
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Deale, MD, USA
    Posts
    1,720

    Default Re: Clipper Ventures declares war on MCA & MAIB?

    Quote Originally Posted by TLouth7 View Post
    I think the tether issue is a red herring. The dispute is not with the finding that the tether was inadequate, but with other elements of the investigation and its conclusions. Surely it is a matter of record whether there was a vessel in the vicinity which seems to be the primary grievance, and also whether Clipper had implemented the MAIB's recommendations at the time of publishing its report.

    Claims of collusion and a lack of impartiality will be much harder to prove and should be good fun for plenty of lawyers, but the battle is likely to be damaging to the reputations of all parties.
    The failed tether is not really a dig at Clipper. It's a dig at Spinlock. They've stubbed their tow on safety gear a few times.

  9. #89
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    East coast UK. Mostly. Sometimes the Philippines
    Posts
    9,393

    Default Re: Clipper Ventures declares war on MCA & MAIB?

    Clipper have re-flagged to Malta.

    They are serious.

  10. #90
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Sydney, Australia.
    Posts
    5,277

    Default Re: Clipper Ventures declares war on MCA & MAIB?

    Quote Originally Posted by thinwater View Post
    The failed tether is not really a dig at Clipper. It's a dig at Spinlock. They've stubbed their tow on safety gear a few times.
    Clipper were under no obligation to buy from Spinlock - they had a choice and chose badly. Spinlock lost touch - but that does not absolve Clipper (nor Spinlock). I thought the investigation was focussed at decisions and choices made by Clipper (not the inadequacies of chosen suppliers).

    Minn - sorry to be so uneducated - what are the implications to Malta registration (in terms of safety and potential loss of life).

    Jonathan

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