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  1. #141
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
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    2,836

    Default Re: Clipper Ventures declares war on MCA & MAIB?

    Quote Originally Posted by JumbleDuck View Post



    I think it's the "three deaths in the last two races but none before" aspect which is potentially concerning. Statistical fluke or standards slipping?
    .
    Certainly warrants some concern and analysis by race organisers. I have heard the suggestion that the switch to the bigger, faster, Tony Castro yachts could be a contributing factor.
    I am slightly alarmed at the advanced ages of many of the crew - lots in their sixties, some into their seventies. Question if the physical demands are sometimes too much? Certainly higher probability of a fatal heart attack. But then hey, what a way to go!
    Peter

  2. #142
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    SW Scotland
    Posts
    19,546

    Default Re: Clipper Ventures declares war on MCA & MAIB?

    Quote Originally Posted by capnsensible View Post
    What do you think about the fact CV had to have their safety system independently reviewed because the MCA couldnt spare the resources? Seems odd?
    I honestly don't know whether it is part of the MCA remit to review the safety systems of commercial companies. is it?
    "Seamen are always wanting to do things the proper way; and I like to do them my way."

  3. #143
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    West London
    Posts
    2,625

    Default Re: Clipper Ventures declares war on MCA & MAIB?

    Quote Originally Posted by capnsensible View Post
    Whose boat? I said I had been chatting to a bloke from the MCA Enforcement Unit. It was ages ago, I dont remember his name. So who was it who sold the boat??
    The guy from the MCA Enforcement Unit.
    Keep up at the back.
    Very well maintained it was too, as one would expect.

  4. #144
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Atlantic
    Posts
    20,891

    Default Re: Clipper Ventures declares war on MCA & MAIB?

    Quote Originally Posted by JumbleDuck View Post
    I honestly don't know whether it is part of the MCA remit to review the safety systems of commercial companies. is it?
    It might be worth reading CV response then.

  5. #145
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
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    Atlantic
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    20,891

    Default Re: Clipper Ventures declares war on MCA & MAIB?

    Quote Originally Posted by scotty123 View Post
    The guy from the MCA Enforcement Unit.
    Keep up at the back.
    Very well maintained it was too, as one would expect.
    There is more than one. You are talking in riddles. Dunno why.

  6. #146
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Atlantic
    Posts
    20,891

    Default Re: Clipper Ventures declares war on MCA & MAIB?

    With regards to report section 2019/113, Clipper Ventures has been asked to take account of any safety management guidance and direction provided by the MCA - The Maritime Coastguard Agency has been unable to find the resources so far to provide Clipper Ventures with guidance and direction and we have been waiting for them to contact us to look into maritime safety issues for 18 months. However, in view of this delay, we have had our systems assessed by two outside auditors.

  7. #147
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    East coast UK. Mostly. Sometimes the Philippines
    Posts
    9,536

    Default Re: Clipper Ventures declares war on MCA & MAIB?

    With reference to post 142:

    See post 146 but if a commercial vessel subject to the International Safety Management Code (“the ISM Code”) is registered in the UK the operator’s Safety Management System (“SMS”) is audited annually by the MCA and each ship’s SMS is audited by the MCA or by a Recognised Organisation (ie a Class Society - our ships are audited by Lloyd’s Register as the MCA don’t have the resources).

    I think that if I were told to seek guidance from the MCA, and, after a year and a half, no guidance was forthcoming because the MCA had nobody on their staff competent to offer any, I might feel ever so slightly miffed.
    Last edited by Minn; 24-08-19 at 20:21.

  8. #148
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Kernow
    Posts
    4,145

    Default Re: Clipper Ventures declares war on MCA & MAIB?

    Quote Originally Posted by JumbleDuck View Post
    I would like to see rather more detailed allegations and rather less petulance from CV.

    Is there anyone reading this thread whose faith in CV safety management has been increased by recent events?
    But the allegations are really quite simple- have you read it? The most noted being the bare faced lie about a ship being close which caused huge upset to the family.

    I think you just enjoy seeing fault with what is actually a well run organisation, and even though you have no exoerience of them yourself, you pour scorn on those that have had direct exoerience, as opposed to "in know a bloke who knows a bloke who..."

  9. #149
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Kernow
    Posts
    4,145

    Default Re: Clipper Ventures declares war on MCA & MAIB?

    Quote Originally Posted by JumbleDuck View Post
    I would have thought that leisure sailors looking for a big challenge would be a substantial segment of CV's market.



    I think it's the "three deaths in the last two races but none before" aspect which is potentially concerning. Statistical fluke or standards slipping?



    That's possible. Or maybe Clipper got lucky for a while and don't cope well with being told that. Whichever it is, I think that moving to avoid the jurisdiction of the MAIB and MCA immediately after their third fatal accident is reported on looks very bad. Rotten PR.
    Death 1, my friend Andy - clipper teach to not step thru or go into the area he chose to. Skippers tear strips off people for it. The area is even nicknamed "Milton Keynes". Andy went there and sadly paid the ultimate price for his momentary mistake.

    Death 2 - round the worlder who ignore the sop to be clipped on even when in the pit, and do it as you come up the companionway. Again clipper are rigorous on this. Sarah paid the ultinate price too for that mistake.

    Death 3 - a reputable and well known supplier of critical safety equipment sold clipper a product that had an inbuilt failure that was not known about until this death.

    Am struggling to see why some on here seem hell bent on slagging off a good company and conveniently ignoring the human factor and a manufacturing issue, which are all outwith Clipper or the skippers control. You cannot watch everyone all the time, 24/7.

  10. #150
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    SW Scotland
    Posts
    19,546

    Default Re: Clipper Ventures declares war on MCA & MAIB?

    Quote Originally Posted by capnsensible View Post
    It might be worth reading CV response then.
    All that says is "We have had our safety system independently reviewed, as the MCA has not been able to allocate the resources to do so", as you wrote. I'd still like to know if this is work which the MCA would normally do.

    Incidentally, the MAIB report into the previous two CV deaths (https://assets.publishing.service.go...ort07_2017.pdf) makes no mention of the MCA reviewing a new safety system. The whole thing looks like a bit of a red herring.
    "Seamen are always wanting to do things the proper way; and I like to do them my way."

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