Page 2 of 21 FirstFirst 123456712 ... LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 209
  1. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Boat (now back in) the Clyde
    Posts
    5,651

    Default Re: Clipper Ventures declares war on MCA & MAIB?

    Quote Originally Posted by Quiddle View Post
    Is there perhaps the possibility of bias by the author of the Y&Y article?
    https://au.linkedin.com/in/morgan-kasmarik-49200a20
    Surely it was clear it was a Clipper Press release

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    2,845

    Default Re: Clipper Ventures declares war on MCA & MAIB?

    Quote Originally Posted by Elecglitch View Post
    I found myself at a dinner this summer with someone who did three (IIRC) legs of the clipper race in 2015. His views on their attitude to safety I found rather shocking and certainly convinced me that I would not want anyone I cared for to take part. What he said I'm afraid reflected the, what I had previously considered rather alarmist, accusations of profit before safety raised by some in previous discussions on here. Tellingly he had felt moved to put his concerns in writing to RKJ after the event and although he received an acknowledgment of their receipt, that was all the response that he ever got.
    Well one of my sailing friends is about to participate the next race that starts next month. He has been on countless training outings and been subjected to a MASSIVE amount of operating procedures, in which safety figures very highly. I really think it is time some of us old f*rt armchair sailors woke up to the possibility that the Clipper organisation is attempting something quite extraordinarily positive for sailing. Maybe we should be proud of what they are doing?

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Sydney, Australia.
    Posts
    5,494

    Default Re: Clipper Ventures declares war on MCA & MAIB?

    Lost in the arguments is the simple fact that a safety clip failed, of which there are demonstrably better designs used by other organisations, and as a result of this clip failure a man died.

    The fact the investigating organisations might have erred is questionable - but their errors have not caused any deaths. The fact a man died, possibly prevenatable, is unforgivable.

    Hiding behind - it met specification - is simply an excuse, they should be using the best kit available.

    Symptomatic of the issues - they still use Delta anchors the RNLI have moved with the times, what stops Clipper.

    I admire the concept, of Clipper, and think it needs all the support it can get - but that does not mean they have got it right, yet. Too may deaths in my book.

    Jonathan

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    1,555

    Default Re: Clipper Ventures declares war on MCA & MAIB?

    Quote Originally Posted by dunedin View Post
    Surely it was clear it was a Clipper Press release
    No.

    It was clear it was initiated by their release. It was not clear the article was actually written by them.

    There is something odd about this. My understanding is that MAIB investigations are shared with stakeholders in advance. If you believe there are factual inaccuracies you report them then. If they did that why didn't MAIB fix them? If they didn't, why didn't they?

    I do think MAIB have a reputation for obsession about certain things.

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Sydney, Australia.
    Posts
    5,494

    Default Re: Clipper Ventures declares war on MCA & MAIB?

    Maybe Clipper should have obsessions as well.

    They suggest they corrected the issues that the MAIB found earlier - why was their anything to correct in the first place - they have a team of professional yachtsmen a sailing legend as CEO, profession skippers - does, or did, no-one check.

    Being critical of the MAIB does not appear to enhance Clipper's status.

    It is all very well practising safety procedures until they are second nature - but the training is flawed if the kit is not adequate.

    Sorry to introduce anchors, but knowing that is the choice, knowing there are better hooks on the market, knowing they have been corrected previously (MAIB) I wonder what else slips through the net.

    Obfuscation comes to mind.

    Jonathan

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Kernow
    Posts
    4,154

    Default MAIB report seriously flawed - Clipper

    Those that know Clipper know that safety is paramount, and that the recent Maib report seemed to be inaccurate.

    False comments, especially about the presence of a ship 60nm away, and an official lieing to the family about this, have led to a lot of grief.

    https://www.sailingscuttlebutt.com/2...on-questioned/

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    SW Scotland
    Posts
    19,653

    Default Re: MAIB report seriously flawed - Clipper

    Quote Originally Posted by Comrade Red View Post
    Those that know Clipper know that safety is paramount ...
    Quite apart from the deaths and the grounding, this is never true. If safety really was paramount, everybody involved would stay at home - as would all sailors, climbers, horse riders, glider pilots, parachutists, cyclists and probably gardeners. Those hoes can give a nasty cut. In reality it's always a balance between safety and fun.
    "Seamen are always wanting to do things the proper way; and I like to do them my way."

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    1,724

    Default Re: MAIB report seriously flawed - Clipper

    Quote Originally Posted by Comrade Red View Post
    Those that know Clipper know that safety is paramount, and that the recent Maib report seemed to be inaccurate.

    False comments, especially about the presence of a ship 60nm away, and an official lieing to the family about this, have led to a lot of grief.

    https://www.sailingscuttlebutt.com/2...on-questioned/
    As per my post above, not in the view of the former participant to whom I spoke. Having spoken to him I did a bit of admittedly Q&D analysis, one was statistically less likely to be killed as a member of the British Forces in Afghanistan at the height of the fighting out there than as a participant on a recent Clipper race, and one got paid for that privilege rather than visa versa.
    Last edited by Elecglitch; 11-08-19 at 07:12.

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    1,724

    Default Re: MAIB report seriously flawed - Clipper

    Quote Originally Posted by JumbleDuck View Post
    Quite apart from the deaths and the grounding, this is never true. If safety really was paramount, everybody involved would stay at home - as would all sailors, climbers, horse riders, glider pilots, parachutists, cyclists and probably gardeners. Those hoes can give a nasty cut. In reality it's always a balance between safety and fun.

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Boat (now back in) the Clyde
    Posts
    5,651

    Default Re: Clipper Ventures declares war on MCA & MAIB?

    Quote Originally Posted by Neeves View Post
    Lost in the arguments is the simple fact that a safety clip failed, of which there are demonstrably better designs used by other organisations, and as a result of this clip failure a man died.
    That is so true. The core issue, the fact that the tether clips fail at such a low force when pulled from the side seems to have been pushed out of sight by Clipper, MAIB and MCA.
    I had hoped to see all clips on sale now moved to a design which was more robust to this type of side pull.
    Instead it has been suggested users should ensure this side load cannot happen - but boat decks have lots of fittings, like the mooring cleat in that case, and most MOB don’t get to choose their manner and trajectory of sudden departure!

Page 2 of 21 FirstFirst 123456712 ... LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Latest YBW News

Find Boats For Sale

to
to