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  1. #21
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    38,249

    Default Re: Clipper Ventures declares war on MCA & MAIB?

    Quote Originally Posted by dunedin View Post
    That is so true. The core issue, the fact that the tether clips fail at such a low force when pulled from the side seems to have been pushed out of sight by Clipper, MAIB and MCA.
    I had hoped to see all clips on sale now moved to a design which was more robust to this type of side pull.
    Instead it has been suggested users should ensure this side load cannot happen - but boat decks have lots of fittings, like the mooring cleat in that case, and most MOB don’t get to choose their manner and trajectory of sudden departure!
    No, the core issue is using 'fall prevention' equipment for 'fall arrest' and having a lot of people falling a lot.

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Emsworth Hants
    Posts
    12,573

    Default Re: Clipper Ventures declares war on MCA & MAIB?


  3. #23
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    West London
    Posts
    2,932

    Default Re: Clipper Ventures declares war on MCA & MAIB?

    Quote Originally Posted by Neeves View Post
    Lost in the arguments is the simple fact that a safety clip failed, of which there are demonstrably better designs used by other organisations, and as a result of this clip failure a man died.

    The fact the investigating organisations might have erred is questionable - but their errors have not caused any deaths. The fact a man died, possibly prevenatable, is unforgivable.

    Hiding behind - it met specification - is simply an excuse, they should be using the best kit available.

    Symptomatic of the issues - they still use Delta anchors the RNLI have moved with the times, what stops Clipper.

    I admire the concept, of Clipper, and think it needs all the support it can get - but that does not mean they have got it right, yet. Too may deaths in my book.

    Jonathan
    Mid-Ocean, does it matter which anchor?

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Sydney, Australia.
    Posts
    5,498

    Default Re: Clipper Ventures declares war on MCA & MAIB?

    Oddly, or not so oddly, they use them to stem an adverse tide - its a common practice.

    Other yachts, racing yachts, use Fortress and use them with success, the Volvo fleet some time ago to stem an adverse tide crossing Storm Bay, SA, and on the Vendee Globe have been used Fortress 2 or 3 times at Auckland Island (way south of NZ in the depths of the Southern Ocean). Fortress are commonly carried and though not commonly used - are used with success.

    A Fortress would weigh half the weight of a Delta specified for the same yacht - which do you think is easier to handle? And if they are not much use mid ocean - why lug about the extra weight (that is inconvenient to stow).

    I believe part of Clipper's induction programme, rightly, includes retrieving the anchor from the forepeak using a halyard - I'm not sure how many people are needed for deployment - but Fortress would at least be lighter. If you insist on a steel anchor - why not a Spade, Rocna or Supreme (all with Classification Society certification (as is Fortress). Which is easier to set, which is easier to handle, which is easier to stow - none of the answers would come up with Delta.

    Jonathan

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Atlantic
    Posts
    21,337

    Default Re: Clipper Ventures declares war on MCA & MAIB?

    Love these threads.

    Nanny state, nanny state wah wah wah.

    Shouldnt be allowed shouldnt be allowed wah wah wah.



    Not sure where the anchor thang is coming from though.......

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    1,725

    Default Re: Clipper Ventures declares war on MCA & MAIB?

    Quote Originally Posted by capnsensible View Post
    Love these threads.

    Nanny state, nanny state wah wah wah.

    Shouldnt be allowed shouldnt be allowed wah wah wah.



    Not sure where the anchor thang is coming from though.......
    For my part, no objection to what they are doing, they have spotted a business opportunity and are milking it for all its worth, that's business and anyone has a right to make a profit. I just don't like some of their decisions and the marketing BS and smokescreen is a trifle irritating.

    You are the only one on this thread who seems to be whining like an RAF officer who's been told that he has to walk.
    Last edited by Elecglitch; 11-08-19 at 10:52.

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Bristol
    Posts
    973

    Default Re: Clipper Ventures declares war on MCA & MAIB?

    Quote Originally Posted by lw395 View Post
    No, the core issue is using 'fall prevention' equipment for 'fall arrest' and having a lot of people falling a lot.
    Indeed, as and engineer bound by CDM we are told we must prevent incidents happening as priority over making sure there is subsequent mitigation. Sailing expeditions and such ventures as Clipper use big crews to handle sails as more satisfying etc than say, roller furling on all foresails so no one goes forward in bad weather - which is what most short handed cruisers do. I take Clippers point but people died whose families expected them home so they havent got it right.
    A boat is for going places

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Atlantic
    Posts
    21,337

    Default Re: Clipper Ventures declares war on MCA & MAIB?

    Quote Originally Posted by Elecglitch View Post
    For my part, no objection to what they are doing, they have spotted a business opportunity and are milking it for all its worth, that's business and anyone has a right to make a profit. I just don't like some of their decisions and the marketing BS and smokescreen is a trifle irritating.

    You are the only one on this thread who seems to be whining like an RAF officer who's been told that he has to walk.
    Well you were clearly desperate to use yer one liner, but cmon, where on earth did you get the whining bit from?

    Were you a Skimmer?

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Posts
    15,662

    Default Re: Clipper Ventures declares war on MCA & MAIB?

    Quote Originally Posted by Neeves View Post
    Lost in the arguments is the simple fact that a safety clip failed, of which there are demonstrably better designs used by other organisations, and as a result of this clip failure a man died.

    The fact the investigating organisations might have erred is questionable - but their errors have not caused any deaths. The fact a man died, possibly prevenatable, is unforgivable.

    Hiding behind - it met specification - is simply an excuse, they should be using the best kit available.

    Symptomatic of the issues - they still use Delta anchors the RNLI have moved with the times, what stops Clipper.

    I admire the concept, of Clipper, and think it needs all the support it can get - but that does not mean they have got it right, yet. Too may deaths in my book.

    Jonathan
    Daft analogy! My mate has a new gen anchor, he always struggles to get it to set first time. We have a Delta, missus sets it first time usually and we dont drag.
    So what has that got to do with it!

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    7,128

    Default Re: Clipper Ventures declares war on MCA & MAIB?

    Quote Originally Posted by capnsensible View Post
    Well you were clearly desperate to use yer one liner, but cmon, where on earth did you get the whining bit from?

    Were you a Skimmer?
    Accused of being a Crabfat Pig lol Jack didnt bite .
    Lived with the Clipper mob in RCY for 18 months. Saw all I needed to see. Things I thought I would never see. They didnt want to listen & it seems they still dont.
    PMSL when i read we should be proud of what they are doing
    I must have been reincarnated because I'm living the life of Riley.

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