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  1. #41
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    Feb 2004
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    Default Re: Brexit and VAT status - flotilla from UK

    Quote Originally Posted by greeny View Post
    Not sure any of this debate is going to help anyone and until the dust settles after B day no one will know..............
    And that is indeed the issue. But somebody with a large value tied up in VAT, particularly in a specialist boat most saleable outwith the U.K.,decisions will need to be made before B-day to mitigate the risk of losing tens of thousands of pounds in boat value / net worth. Acting afterwards could be too late.
    Unlikely to be an issue for somebody with an old Westerly or Moody, but a sizeable risk for anybody invested a significant chunk of their assets in recent boat as a liveaboard or retirement boat.

    PS I feel one must be a very brave (and wealthy) gambler to invest in buying a new U.K. VAT paid boat at the Southampton Boat Show, for example, unless more clarity. Certainly I would not have invested a lot of U.K. VAT in a boat over the past year.
    Last edited by dunedin; 19-08-19 at 10:43.

  2. #42
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
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    Mooring, Faro
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    1,566

    Default Re: Brexit and VAT status - flotilla from UK

    Quote Originally Posted by dunedin View Post
    Unlikely to be an issue for somebody with an old Westerly or Moody, but a sizeable risk for anybody invested a significant chunk of their assets in recent boat as a liveaboard or retirement boat.
    It's an issue for anyone with a boat. Even the £40k Westerly or Moody may have an £8k to £10k VAT bill if moving in/out of the UK/EU and that no doubt is an extra discount a prospective purchaser will be wanting.

  3. #43
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
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    375

    Default Re: Brexit and VAT status - flotilla from UK

    Quote Originally Posted by Graham376 View Post
    It's an issue for anyone with a boat. Even the £40k Westerly or Moody may have an £8k to £10k VAT bill if moving in/out of the UK/EU and that no doubt is an extra discount a prospective purchaser will be wanting.
    One (or many...) may try suing the British state for negligence if that actually happens.

  4. #44
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
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    Ammersee, Bavaria
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    Default Re: Brexit and VAT status - flotilla from UK

    It's just another Brexit bonus.

    Look at it this way ... those with VAT paid boats, regardless of value (5K is a lot of money to some people) will have a dilemma. They must decide if the boat makes more sense as EU goods or UK goods and act accordingly - of course returning a boat from the Med is a real pain in the arse ... but ... as it looks, the UK government will give UK residents a few years to re-patriate their boats and retain their VAT paid status using returning goods relief. We don't yet know if it will also work the other way round.

    As a plus, post Brexit, a UK citizen should be able to buy and run a VAT free boat in the EU. This can be done by exporting a boat from the UK with no VAT paid, or by buying VAT free in the EU for export, but then returning to the EU under temporary import rules. (This requires a check out and in again every 18 months to reset the temporary import clock). Downside is that the owner can only spend 90 days out of 180 on the boat - so retirees/live aboards may have issues.

    More worrying is that all second hand boats in the UK will be less attractive to EU buyers as their UK VAT paid status is worthless. They will need to be imported to the EU anyway - so the pound would have to tank by another 20% to make it worth EU citizens buying UK boats - or the boats second hand value will have to drop considerably. Similarly EU boats for use in the UK (by UK citizens) will need to be imported into the UK. I don't know how much UK second hand stock is sold to EU buyers or vice-versa, perhaps a broker can shed more light, but I would imagine supply/demand will be affected. UK buyers would have to consider the additional VAT/Import duties payable on all EU boats, and vice-versa. Hopefully there wont be any RCD/CE issues as with ROW boats currently.
    The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.

  5. #45
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    Mar 2010
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    Default Re: Brexit and VAT status - flotilla from UK

    Quote Originally Posted by GTom View Post
    One (or many...) may try suing the British state for negligence if that actually happens.
    This is what is likely from multi-nationals under the terms of the UKs bilateral investment treaties, but as a UK citizen, the country collectively voted for it ... so no recourse I would suspect.
    The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.

  6. #46
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
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    375

    Default Re: Brexit and VAT status - flotilla from UK

    Quote Originally Posted by Baggywrinkle View Post
    More worrying is that all second hand boats in the UK will be less attractive to EU buyers anyone willing to sail EU waters extensively as their UK VAT paid status is worthless. They will need to be imported to the EU anyway - so the pound would have to tank by another 20% to make it worth EU citizens buying UK boats - or the boats second hand value will have to drop considerably. Similarly EU boats for use in the UK (by UK citizens) will need to be imported into the UK. I don't know how much UK second hand stock is sold to EU buyers or vice-versa, perhaps a broker can shed more light, but I would imagine supply/demand will be affected. UK buyers would have to consider the additional VAT/Import duties payable on all EU boats, and vice-versa. Hopefully there wont be any RCD/CE issues as with ROW boats currently.
    Couple of billions vaporized, while some may benefit a few thousand.

    Quote Originally Posted by Baggywrinkle View Post
    This is what is likely from multi-nationals under the terms of the UKs bilateral investment treaties, but as a UK citizen, the country collectively voted for it ... so no recourse I would suspect.
    Interesting: in case of an e.g. German/French/Greek/American/etc owner, having a UK boat that he is unable to move to the EU VAT area from wherever the boat is between the Canaries and Norway, could try. But courts should be impartial, if a Briton tries the same, the ruling should be the same too? Probably we should see after B-day...
    Last edited by GTom; 19-08-19 at 12:14.

  7. #47
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
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    Default Re: Brexit and VAT status - flotilla from UK

    Quote Originally Posted by GTom View Post
    Couple of billions vaporized, while some may benefit a few thousand.
    A UK citizen can sail in the EU in a UK VAT paid boat under a temporary import. They can only stay out of the UK for the maximum time allowed under returning goods relief or they will lose UK VAT paid status - and they can't officially do a major re-fit outside the UK - but they can do as many 18 month temporary imports to the EU as they like without incurring any additional import/VAT charges. ... the individuals will have to comply with the 90 day in 180 rules for non-EU visitors however.
    The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.

  8. #48
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
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    375

    Default Re: Brexit and VAT status - flotilla from UK

    Quote Originally Posted by Baggywrinkle View Post
    A UK citizen can sail in the EU in a UK VAT paid boat under a temporary import. They can only stay out of the UK for the maximum time allowed under returning goods relief or they will lose UK VAT paid status - and they can't officially do a major re-fit outside the UK - but they can do as many 18 month temporary imports to the EU as they like without incurring any additional import/VAT charges. ... the individuals will have to comply with the 90 day in 180 rules for non-EU visitors however.
    He can indeed, but moving the boat out of the EU every 18 months is a hassle in many regions. Non issue in Greece but might be cumbersome in the Rias, Mediterranean France or Sardinia. Retirement/relocation plans in Spain, etc became also an expensive venture: many might sell their UK boats instead and buy another down under, which creates additional selling pressure on the UK boat market.
    Last edited by GTom; 19-08-19 at 12:48.

  9. #49
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Portugal
    Posts
    640

    Default Re: Brexit and VAT status - flotilla from UK

    Quote Originally Posted by dunedin View Post
    And that is indeed the issue. But somebody with a large value tied up in VAT, particularly in a specialist boat most saleable outwith the U.K.,decisions will need to be made before B-day to mitigate the risk of losing tens of thousands of pounds in boat value / net worth. Acting afterwards could be too late.
    Unlikely to be an issue for somebody with an old Westerly or Moody, but a sizeable risk for anybody invested a significant chunk of their assets in recent boat as a liveaboard or retirement boat.

    PS I feel one must be a very brave (and wealthy) gambler to invest in buying a new U.K. VAT paid boat at the Southampton Boat Show, for example, unless more clarity. Certainly I would not have invested a lot of U.K. VAT in a boat over the past year.
    So what are you realistically going to do to mitigate the risk that you don't understand or know anything about yet? Except worry maybe. Lifes too short.

  10. #50
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    Feb 2004
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    Default Re: Brexit and VAT status - flotilla from UK

    Quote Originally Posted by greeny View Post
    So what are you realistically going to do to mitigate the risk that you don't understand or know anything about yet? Except worry maybe. Lifes too short.
    Read OP original post. One option to retain EU VAT could be to move a U.K. boat to be in a EU country overnight on B- day. That’s where this thread started, and is based upon current best information able to be obtained so far by RYA and Cruising Association.

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