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  1. #11
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
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    SW Scotland
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    19,408

    Default Re: Brexit and VAT status - flotilla from UK

    Quote Originally Posted by Joker View Post
    If my boat is outside the EU on Brexit Day [and that includes the UK], it loses its EU VAT status. This means I can keep it in EU waters for 18 months, at which point it becomes EU VAT payable. So … my options are Norway or Russia ...
    Can you give a reference to that? The article linked is only about union goods status, not VAT.
    "Seamen are always wanting to do things the proper way; and I like to do them my way."

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
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    Mooring, Faro
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    1,486

    Default Re: Brexit and VAT status - flotilla from UK

    Quote Originally Posted by Baggywrinkle View Post
    UK citizens with a boat in the EU will retain EU VAT paid status. The boat is seen as EU goods (imported) so it can stay in the EU indefinately. If it is brought back to the UK, UK VAT will be due and possibly import duty as it will have lost its UK VAT paid status. Bummer for UK boat owners planning to bring their boat back to the UK after Brexit.
    As long as it is in the same ownership, VAT will not be due under the Returned Goods Relief rules.

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
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    Mooring, Faro
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    1,486

    Default Re: Brexit and VAT status - flotilla from UK

    Quote Originally Posted by lw395 View Post
    I suspect it's not so simple.
    A UK-owned boat, with a UK SSR registered to a UK resident, having been based in a UK port for the last 5 years will probably still be treated as a UK VAT paid boat if it happens to be visiting Cherbourg at the key hour. Much the same as if it happened to be in the middle of the Atlantic or in Jersey.
    A UK owned boat 'permanently' based in the Med is clearly a different proposition.

    There may be some awkward grey areas for UK boats which have been playing the 'just visiting' card in some EU countries for the last few years.
    Last time we were home, I phoned the VAT enquiry dept. and received the following information, based on information they had at the time.

    A UK boat in EU waters on Brexit day will retain it's current EU VAT status, which would normally be VAT paid or deemed paid for older boats. If the boat is later brought back to the UK under the same ownership, no VAT would be due under Returning Goods Relief which, for personal belongings (not business goods), can be far longer than 2 years.

    If the boat is sold in the EU, the new owner would be liable for UK VAT if it is then brought back to UK.

    If the EU based boat was brought back to the UK by its current owner and then sold in the UK, it would lose its EU VAT status and VAT would be due if it returned to the EU for >18 months.

    It will be up to the owner to provide documented proof of the boat's location on B day.


    All the above could change if we leave with a "deal".

  4. #14
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    37,302

    Default Re: Brexit and VAT status - flotilla from UK

    Quote Originally Posted by Graham376 View Post
    As long as it is in the same ownership, VAT will not be due under the Returned Goods Relief rules.
    There are other get-outs for personal possessions, for instance an acquaintance recently brought in loads of furniture and other goods from the USA after living there for some years then relocating back here.

    I'd be quite careful about assuming that the e.g. Portuguese authorities will be following general advice given by HMRC in any specific case.

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Ammersee, Bavaria
    Posts
    4,841

    Default Re: Brexit and VAT status - flotilla from UK

    Quote Originally Posted by Graham376 View Post
    As long as it is in the same ownership, VAT will not be due under the Returned Goods Relief rules.
    Just checked that, and you are indeed correct. The UK government seems to be intent on allowing RGR on assets returned from the EU post Brexit.

    HMRC has advised the RYA that plans have been made to replicate Returned Goods Relief (RGR) into domestic law in the event of a no deal. RGR allows those resident in the UK to return with their belongings (including pleasure boats) to the UK without paying customs duty or VAT as long as the items have not been changed since their departure and follow the guidance given in the Notice 236 Returned Good Relief.
    https://www.rya.org.uk/knowledge-adv...-scenario.aspx

    ... so there's a possibility to return the boat to the UK without paying VAT/Import duty again subject to whatever the RGR end up looking like. Sorry for any confusion I caused.

    PS - What stops you moving your own boat from EU to UK and back again every 23 months and each time claiming RGR to retain VAT paid status in both the EU and UK? This was the reason I thought they might be more strict on either EU goods or UK goods, with one or the other ending on Brexit day. Effectively a boat in the EU on Brexit day gets EU goods (VAT Paid) status but doesn't lose its UK VAT paid status because it could later be counted as returning goods - looks like it's going to be one big paperwork exercise. Once they've thought about it it'll probably end up as the owner having to choose - EU goods or UK goods regardless of location. Then if a UK citizen chooses UK goods, his boat is automatically transfered to "temporary import" in the EU and has 18 months before it has to leave and re-enter - same for EU citizens with boats in the UK.
    Last edited by Baggywrinkle; 12-08-19 at 11:32.
    The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
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    Mooring, Faro
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    1,486

    Default Re: Brexit and VAT status - flotilla from UK

    Quote Originally Posted by Baggywrinkle View Post
    Once they've thought about it it'll probably end up as the owner having to choose - EU goods or UK goods regardless of location. Then if a UK citizen chooses UK goods, his boat is automatically transfered to "temporary import" in the EU and has 18 months before it has to leave and re-enter - same for EU citizens with boats in the UK.
    For those based on the south coast, they could have an EU marina invoice for the night before Brexit, then sail to the UK, having booked out,on Brexit day and get a UK marina invoice for that night. Boat would have been in whichever territory he chooses, depending on future circumstances. I think there will some very "constructive" paperwork when boats change hands in future.

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Kernow
    Posts
    4,126

    Default Re: Brexit and VAT status - flotilla from UK

    So basically get a marina invoice inFrance for 31st Oct and 1st Nov, then sail back to UK. The EU invoice avoids any VAT nasties in EU for future trips, and the original invoice showing UK vat paid when new solves the UK.

    A quick trip end of Oct therefore seems the best amd safest bet right now.

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Posts
    41

    Default Re: Brexit and VAT status - flotilla from UK

    In this topic I read a lot of assumptions and no hard facts how regulations indeed will be applied. In part that is because the rules and regulations are not yet defined, so we cannot know at this moment.

    I am not an expert on this topic, but just a few practical comments that might be worth to look into.

    1. The boat has a flag, meaning that it belongs to a particular country. That is different from goods like e.g. a bike that are located in a country. If you have a car with a UK license plate in the EU after brexit that might as just well create a new situation which is different from your UK purchased bike in your EU holiday home.

    2. Marina invoices normally do not uniquely identify one particular boat. If presence in some marina would work - which I don't know - then take care of rock solid evidence which will hold up in court that your boat indeed was in that marina at that time. After all it could be a look alike from somebody else or your friend the marina owner is just helping out without your boat actually being overthere.

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
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    Mooring, Faro
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    1,486

    Default Re: Brexit and VAT status - flotilla from UK

    Quote Originally Posted by PHN View Post
    1. The boat has a flag, meaning that it belongs to a particular country. That is different from goods like e.g. a bike that are located in a country. If you have a car with a UK license plate in the EU after brexit that might as just well create a new situation which is different from your UK purchased bike in your EU holiday home.

    2. Marina invoices normally do not uniquely identify one particular boat. If presence in some marina would work - which I don't know - then take care of rock solid evidence which will hold up in court that your boat indeed was in that marina at that time. After all it could be a look alike from somebody else or your friend the marina owner is just helping out without your boat actually being overthere.
    Quite obviously, boats are totally different to bikes so, what's your point?

    As far as marina receipts are concerned, all receipts I've received in EU States have my name, boat name & date. In places such as Portugal & Spain, a copy of boat and owner/crew details has to be sent to police.

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Posts
    364

    Default Re: Brexit and VAT status - flotilla from UK

    Quote Originally Posted by lw395 View Post
    ...Much the same as if it happened to be in the middle of the Atlantic or in Jersey.
    These risk loosing both VAT paid statuses if the "Dunkerque 2019" scaremongering is right.

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