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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
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    Default Re: Brexit and VAT status - flotilla from UK

    Quote Originally Posted by PHN View Post
    In this topic I read a lot of assumptions and no hard facts how regulations indeed will be applied. In part that is because the rules and regulations are not yet defined, so we cannot know at this moment.

    I am not an expert on this topic, but just a few practical comments that might be worth to look into.

    1. The boat has a flag, meaning that it belongs to a particular country. That is different from goods like e.g. a bike that are located in a country. If you have a car with a UK license plate in the EU after brexit that might as just well create a new situation which is different from your UK purchased bike in your EU holiday home.
    This is the RYA advice on No Deal Brexit ...

    If a deal is not reached on leaving the EU the UK will be treated by the remaining 27 EU Member States (EU27) as any other third country would be treated.
    There is a well established regime for handling boats from 3rd countries which enter EU waters. They have to check-in with customs and immigration when they arrive in an EU country. This involves flying a courtesy flag of the country whose waters you are in, a yellow "Q" flag, and heading for the closest port of entry with customs facilities. There the crew are checked by immigration and police and the boat is granted an 18 month temporary import which means it can stay in the EU country without paying VAT or import duties for a maximum of 18 months - it also doesn't need to fullfil the RCD or have any CE markings. If there is a no deal Brexit then this is the base assumption for UK boats as the UK will become a third country and will be treated the same as US, Canada etc. The boats flag state has absolutely no relevance.

    How France, Belgium, Holland, Germany etc. decide to treat visiting UK yachts is totally up in the air IMHO. They may be pragmatic and go back to a pretty lax self-declaration type of route or it may end up orders of magnitude worse than the red diesel issues. We don't know.

    There may be an agreement put in place, but what is described above is the default in absence of any other agreement.

    Here are the rules for visiting Turkey for example ... The EU rules may end up looking pretty similar but the general idea is the same for most countries which host foreign yachts.

    http://www.allaboutturkey.com/boat-rules.htm

    Here is a taxation summary of EU rules for non-EU vessels.

    https://ec.europa.eu/taxation_custom...ats-faq_en.pdf

    Here is the Noonsite (US based) info on checking into a foreign country ... UK citizens will almost certainly need to comply with all of this in event of a hard Brexit with no other formal agreements in place.

    https://www.noonsite.com/report/a-gu...your-sailboat/

    ..and here is the RYA No Deal Brexit faq.

    https://www.rya.org.uk/knowledge-adv...-scenario.aspx

    Quote Originally Posted by PHN View Post
    2. Marina invoices normally do not uniquely identify one particular boat. If presence in some marina would work - which I don't know - then take care of rock solid evidence which will hold up in court that your boat indeed was in that marina at that time. After all it could be a look alike from somebody else or your friend the marina owner is just helping out without your boat actually being overthere.
    My marina invoices were more than adequate proof for the processing of my zero rate VAT in Croatia when Croatia joined the EU. The marina my boat is moored at is obliged to keep a list of foreign flagged vessels berthed at the marina for customs and excise purposes - they also keep a copy of all the ships papers, including customs documents. When you run over your 18 months temporary import then depending on how switched on the marina and customs are (and probably depending on the value of your boat) then the boat can be siezed in its marina berth and held until the taxes and import duties are paid.

    Like Brexiteers keep saying, we used to travel and trade before the EU ... yes we did, and we're all about to be reminded what a pain in the arse it was.
    Last edited by Baggywrinkle; 13-08-19 at 07:04.
    The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
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    378

    Default Re: Brexit and VAT status - flotilla from UK

    Speaking of Turkey: EU paid UK boats wintering there (probably quite a few) shouldn't be heading to Greece? What about if the owner has taken e.g. Turkish residency in the meantime?

    Same question for the Canaries, which is not part of the EU VAT territory.

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
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    Default Re: Brexit and VAT status - flotilla from UK

    Quote Originally Posted by GTom View Post
    Speaking of Turkey: EU paid UK boats wintering there (probably quite a few) shouldn't be heading to Greece? What about if the owner has taken e.g. Turkish residency in the meantime?

    Same question for the Canaries, which is not part of the EU VAT territory.
    I would imagine that most EU owned boats in Turkey are there VAT free - it's one of the main attractions of Turkey and that's where a lot of Croatian boats fled when Croatia joined the EU in order to avoid VAT and import duties. As an EU (or UK) citizen you can keep a boat in Turkey VAT free under temporary import rules. I used to keep one in Croatia.

    The main issue with UK VAT paid boats in Turkey is that they will no longer be able to visit Greece in order to reset the 3 year clock on their VAT paid status as the UK will no longer be part of the EU ... the boat will have to visit the UK instead.

    If a boat is exported or sold outside of the EU it can lose its VAT paid status. The vessel needs to have been outside of the EU for more than three years or changed owners outside the EU for this to happen. If an owner exports their vessel for say, two years and then brings it back to the EU (e.g. keeps it in Turkey but visits Greece regularly), it won’t have lost its VAT paid status. However, customs duties may apply. If it is outside of the EU and brought back more than three years later, with a different owner, or having undergone a major refit which would change its value, then VAT will need to be repaid.

    Once you become a citizen or resident of the country where the boat is kept, you usually become liable for the associated taxes.
    The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Fareham
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    6,625

    Default Re: Brexit and VAT status - flotilla from UK

    Quote Originally Posted by Comrade Red View Post
    So basically get a marina invoice inFrance for 31st Oct and 1st Nov, then sail back to UK. The EU invoice avoids any VAT nasties in EU for future trips, and the original invoice showing UK vat paid when new solves the UK.

    A quick trip end of Oct therefore seems the best amd safest bet right now.
    I wouldn't bet on that working. Many marinas do a patrol every day and note which visitors are in which berths. And being French they will keep those records somewhere.
    ۞

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
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    SW Scotland
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    19,535

    Default Re: Brexit and VAT status - flotilla from UK

    Quote Originally Posted by DJE View Post
    I wouldn't bet on that working. Many marinas do a patrol every day and note which visitors are in which berths. And being French they will keep those records somewhere.
    "We went out for a quick sail round the bay."
    "Seamen are always wanting to do things the proper way; and I like to do them my way."

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
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    378

    Default Re: Brexit and VAT status - flotilla from UK

    Quote Originally Posted by JumbleDuck View Post
    "We went out for a quick sail round the bay."

  7. #27
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    Default Re: Brexit and VAT status - flotilla from UK

    "Can you give a reference to that?"

    The subsequent posts may have enlightened you. Or not.

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
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    Mooring, Faro
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    1,570

    Default Re: Brexit and VAT status - flotilla from UK

    Quote Originally Posted by DJE View Post
    I wouldn't bet on that working. Many marinas do a patrol every day and note which visitors are in which berths. And being French they will keep those records somewhere.
    Why wouldn't it work? The boat would arrive the evening before and be there on the morning in question but leave in time to reach a UK marina before midnight. No different to those who weekend in Cherbourg.

  9. #29
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    Aug 2013
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    SW Scotland
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    Default Re: Brexit and VAT status - flotilla from UK

    Quote Originally Posted by Joker View Post
    "Can you give a reference to that?"

    The subsequent posts may have enlightened you. Or not.
    Not really. There still seems to be a complete confusion between VAT status and union goods status.
    "Seamen are always wanting to do things the proper way; and I like to do them my way."

  10. #30
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    Aug 2013
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    SW Scotland
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    Default Re: Brexit and VAT status - flotilla from UK

    Quote Originally Posted by Graham376 View Post
    Why wouldn't it work? The boat would arrive the evening before and be there on the morning in question but leave in time to reach a UK marina before midnight. No different to those who weekend in Cherbourg.
    Of course the fast motorboat owners could arrange to be in both Calais and Dover at midnight on 1st November ...
    "Seamen are always wanting to do things the proper way; and I like to do them my way."

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