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  1. #11
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    scotland
    Posts
    3,415

    Default Re: Tools for Setting Marks for Yacht Races

    Quote Originally Posted by lw395 View Post
    I was at a dinghy event recently.
    No less than 5 mark laying boats, plus committee boat.
    A good operation is all about getting a course in very quickly if needed, usually after a period of monitoring the wind.
    Any technology used must be suitable for a 4m RIB laying marks in F6. i.e. it can be wetter than scuba diving.
    Also comms frequently play up on such boats, even along fairly built up bits of coast.
    Laminated tables of bearings are reliable technology. IP88 and no batteries required.

    But peole need to use their judgement. All the formulaic stuff falls apart when the True Wind is different at each mark.
    Having done the RYA marklayer course 10 years ago I would endorse Iw395 the minimum amount of data over VHF the better
    It’s fine on a nice calm sunny day in 15ft of water but!
    I have looked at the just three words apps which replaces lat & Lon figures with as it says jus three words and whilst introducing an extra element may solve a problem with communication

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Posts
    228

    Default Re: Tools for Setting Marks for Yacht Races

    Having worked at both ends of the spectrum, I definitely work with the KISS principle.
    The RO [often me] has discussed with the mark laying team the course configuration and angles before hand, and then they only need to "ping" the committee boat and be told verbally, often directly, as they are alongside what bearing and distance for the windward mark[s].
    I then let them get on with it. They check with me that they seem to be in right position before laying the marks.

    The two days needed for a mark laying course, involves a full day teaching how to use the GPS units, including a dry land, course setting exercise, and at least a day teaching about Alderney ring recovery system and anchor gear setups, followed by practical wet exercises including the various ways of setting and adjusting gates. It is not easy and demands both skill and practice, which is why I consider them to be true professionals at the end and leave them to it. They are part of the team.

    We do not need Apps, just common sense and experience, which gives speed and flexibility.
    The Olympic teams and many others were very good but in normal sailing, even National Championships, accuracy to the degree or metre is of little effect upon the clients/ competitors. A bit like target times really, how many folk are aware how long they were racing. Target times were introduced to coincide with TV ad breaks.

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Aug 2019
    Posts
    13

    Default Re: Tools for Setting Marks for Yacht Races

    Thanks I agree with KISS
    We use these simple laminated dial devices to get bearings as a back-up for setcources.
    To use these tools:
    => Print two copies of each and get them laminated
    => Cut out the centre disk from one copy
    => Pin or bolt it, carefully aligning it, so the inner disk can be rotated, but is held firm.
    => To use simply set the arrow to the Windward Direction and all the Bearings and Back-Bearings can be read.
    => The tool can be used for both Port and Starboard rounding courses

    Protractor Tool 60-60-60 degree


    and

    Protractor Tool 45-90-45 degree courses

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Posts
    10

    Default Re: Tools for Setting Marks for Yacht Races

    Quote Originally Posted by Laser3 View Post
    I found this set of notes based on RYA course setter - Looks like they use tables for mark bearings! Great set of instructions. Cheers

    see http://www.yotter.co.uk/Club%20Markl...se%20Notes.pdf
    Yes that's robin Greys notes from Ballyholme in NI - I've worked with Robin and been through the course as laid out in the notes - he's very experienced and has lots of RO and Mark laying experience. As said a simple GPS to ping the CB, a distance and bearing for the windward mark a set of tables with a few other simple manual tools that work in the wet for calculating bearings from mark 1-2, 2-3, 3-4 and the inverse of, when hands etc are covered in sea water is ideal - the idea of a n app / tool is good but perhaps not in the heat of the moment!

  5. #15
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    37,689

    Default Re: Tools for Setting Marks for Yacht Races

    Careful reading of the SI's is time well spent, it's not always the Committee Boat you want to ping.

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Posts
    228

    Default Re: Tools for Setting Marks for Yacht Races

    Quote Originally Posted by lw395 View Post
    Careful reading of the SI's is time well spent, it's not always the Committee Boat you want to ping.
    The advantage of pinging the CB with yachts is that they, the competitors, normally ping us to get the start line on their plotters. So easy peasy for them to plot the windward mark. Dinghies however in a big fleet will probably have a leeward gate to round, hence the other reference point for the mark layers.

    I did run the first mark laying course at WPNSA some 30 years ago, before hand held GPS was normal ,and it is a lot easier and accurate now, once that skill is mastered.
    Last edited by Muddy32; 22-08-19 at 11:32.

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Aug 2019
    Posts
    13

    Default Re: Tools for Setting Marks for Yacht Races

    One simple way to measure distances if GPS is not available is to use Golf drive distance devices such as CarryGolf for android. You click a start button and the tool gets your GPS location. Then down-the-track you click 'Distance' button and the device gets the GPS and calculated the distance. I checked with Google Maps and CarryGolf is quite accurate.

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Aug 2019
    Posts
    13

    Default Re: Tools for Setting Marks for Yacht Races

    I have completed DRAFT versions for DMM format.
    see: https://www.setcourses.com/triangle_latlongDMM.html Triangle Lat Long DMM

    & https://www.setcourses.com/trapezoid_latlongDMM.html Trapezoid Lat Long DMM

    If you have time test them out. Thanks

    John

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Aug 2019
    Posts
    13

    Default Re: Tools for Setting Marks for Yacht Races

    UPDATE => I have developed a MAP version draft.

    It needs a Smartphone with GPS - which I don't have (!!) and so I need some one to give it a try and to provide some feedback

    see https://www.setcourses.com/try.html

    This tool provides a virtual GPS unit for Laying the Marks.
    => Enter the Lat Long for the Reference Location Mark 3 or click RefLoc to set it for your location.
    => Enter the windward direction and your preferences for the reach angle and leg length, Then Click GO.
    => This will display a map showing the Mark layout and their positions.
    =>Then, to set a mark, proceed in its direction. Click the ShowMyLoc button to show your current position as a 'dot'. Click it again and your new position will be plotted. Click GO to clear the 'dots'
    => If you need to relocate the marks due a wind shift, without moving the bottom reference mark (Mark 3), then simply enter the new direction and the altered position of the marks will be displayed.>To change the reference, either enter its new location, or go there and click MyLoc to reset all the course marks.
    =>Note: Click MyLoc and ShowMyLoc buttons twice for better accuracy
    => A Smartphone with GPS is required for accurate positions.

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Posts
    228

    Default Re: Tools for Setting Marks for Yacht Races

    Quote Originally Posted by Laser3 View Post
    UPDATE => I have developed a MAP version draft.

    It needs a Smartphone with GPS - which I don't have (!!) and so I need some one to give it a try and to provide some feedback


    see https://www.setcourses.com/try.html

    This tool provides a virtual GPS unit for Laying the Marks.
    => Enter the Lat Long for the Reference Location Mark 3 or click RefLoc to set it for your location.
    => Enter the windward direction and your preferences for the reach angle and leg length, Then Click GO.
    => This will display a map showing the Mark layout and their positions.
    =>Then, to set a mark, proceed in its direction. Click the ShowMyLoc button to show your current position as a 'dot'. Click it again and your new position will be plotted. Click GO to clear the 'dots'
    => If you need to relocate the marks due a wind shift, without moving the bottom reference mark (Mark 3), then simply enter the new direction and the altered position of the marks will be displayed.>To change the reference, either enter its new location, or go there and click MyLoc to reset all the course marks.
    =>Note: Click MyLoc and ShowMyLoc buttons twice for better accuracy
    => A Smartphone with GPS is required for accurate positions.


    Regret that I have a life, and it is too short to bother.
    If a change is needed, get on with it and make an educated guess to allow the competitors to be sailing rather than hanging around waiting for the mark layer to try to look at yet another gadget.

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