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  1. #71
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    1,713

    Default Re: Navigating without a log

    Quote Originally Posted by capnsensible View Post
    Hiya! I was taught as an apprentice to never re use o rings but also when fitting, to use a lubricant.
    Not advisable with oxygen cylinders-severe risk of spontaneous combustion

  2. #72
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    S.W. France
    Posts
    7,612

    Default Re: Navigating without a log

    Quote Originally Posted by capnsensible View Post
    Hiya! I was taught as an apprentice to never re use o rings but also when fitting, to use a lubricant.
    Obviously you apprentices had a good time..
    The only time I relied on a compass and had a Walker log for a five day trip ( no choice as no kit, well before electronics) The log showed the exact point to point distance, despite losing a spinner at one point and I doubt that we tracked that accuratly in the light conditions..

    Went out in a boat a few days ago. Depth was usefull in the narrow channel, Log was on zero, so needs a clean. Not over fussed.

  3. #73
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Atlantic
    Posts
    20,854

    Default Re: Navigating without a log

    Quote Originally Posted by Beelzebub View Post
    Not advisable with oxygen cylinders-severe risk of spontaneous combustion
    And space shuttles.......

    Used silicone grease on firefighting and dive gear. And on HP air systems up to 4000psi.

    Hydraulics to 3000psi always had enough submarine blood swilling around to use on itself!

  4. #74
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Kingdom of Fife
    Posts
    6,079

    Default Re: Navigating without a log

    Quote Originally Posted by capnsensible View Post
    Top memory jogger, ta! Had forgotten all about streaming the log on yachts. Ive actually still got a Walker Log on the yacht somewhere but not used it for years.

    Had also forgotten setting dived submarine speed to shaft revs.

    These posts are really good for those reminders!
    Common command 'set revs for X knts'. We also estimated target speed from type and shaft revs
    Peter

  5. #75
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Posts
    367

    Default Re: Navigating without a log

    Bit of a thread drift but when I was at University I sailed as Chief Officer on small Panamanian registered coastal general cargo boats to supplement my student grant. Usual area of trade was UK, Ireland, France, Holland and Germany.

    We were in Fleetwood, Lancs and received our next destination orders - Tripoli in Libya. We had no charts, no sextant, no chronometer, no other navigation equipment except compass, log and radar. I was horrified and told the Arminian Captain that there was no way we could go. He was not phased and sent me down to WH Smith’s on the high street to buy a world atlas and off we went.

    Actually the voyage was pretty undramatic. Using radar and dead reckoning we kept Ireland on one side and Wales/England on the other. Avoided running into France, crossed the Biscay and keet Spain/Portugal to port until we reach the Straights of Gibraltar and thereafter keet North Africa to starboard and did not hit any Islands until we heard the voice of Tripoli radio station.

    I asked the Captain what we would do if the radar failed and he said go further off shore and time a land fall at about midday so we had good visibility and a good margin of error on our dr positioning. Not to be recommended but it was not as big a deal as I thought it would be.
    Last edited by Dutch01527; 27-08-19 at 14:37.

  6. #76
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Farnham, Surrey
    Posts
    21,319

    Default Re: Navigating without a log

    Quote Originally Posted by Dutch01527 View Post
    Bit of a thread drift but when I was at University I sailed as Chief Officer on small Panamanian registered coastal general cargo boats to supplement my student grant. Usual area of trade was UK, Ireland, France, Holland and Germany.

    We were in Fleetwood, Lancs and received our next destination orders - Tripoli in Libya. We had no charts, no sextant, no chronometer, no other navigation equipment except compass, log and radar. I was horrified and told the Arminian Captain that there was no way we could go. He was not phased and sent me down to WH Smith’s on the high street to buy a world atlas and off we went.

    Actually the voyage was pretty undramatic. Using radar and dead reckoning we kept Ireland on one side and Wales/England on the other. Avoided running into France, crossed the Biscay and keet Spain/Portugal to port until we reach the Straights of Gibraltar and thereafter keet North Africa to starboard and did not hit any Islands until we heard the voice of Tripoli radio station.

    I asked the Captain what we would do if the radar failed and he said go further off shore and time a land fall at about midday so we had good visibility and a good margin of error on our dr positioning. Not to be recommended but it was not as big a deal as I thought it would be.
    Ouch!

    Very illegal and if the authorities had found out, I suspect even the Panamanian Authorities would nowadays suggest a trip to the chandlers to buy a few charts (you don't need many). You don't actually need a sextant and chronometer for such a voyage and I used to sail a day or two out of sight of land on dead reckoning alone before the advent of GPS. (We couldn't afford a Decca)

    However, nowadays, knowing where the reporting positions are for the TSA's and where the deep sea buoys are helps a bit. The various reporting authorities would be onto you if you started taking a small coaster through the TSA the wrong way or without reporting at the appropriate places.

    (I admit that I crossed Biscay once without a Biscay Chart and only afterwards realised we'd sailed past some large offshore deep sea buoys in the dark.). We'd plotted our position by transposing the longitude on the coastal chart at our latitude...
    Semper aliud

  7. #77
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    392

    Default Re: Navigating without a log

    Quote Originally Posted by john_morris_uk View Post
    Ouch!

    Very illegal and if the authorities had found out, I suspect even the Panamanian Authorities would nowadays suggest a trip to the chandlers to buy a few charts (you don't need many). You don't actually need a sextant and chronometer for such a voyage and I used to sail a day or two out of sight of land on dead reckoning alone before the advent of GPS. (We couldn't afford a Decca)

    However, nowadays, knowing where the reporting positions are for the TSA's and where the deep sea buoys are helps a bit. The various reporting authorities would be onto you if you started taking a small coaster through the TSA the wrong way or without reporting at the appropriate places.

    (I admit that I crossed Biscay once without a Biscay Chart and only afterwards realised we'd sailed past some large offshore deep sea buoys in the dark.). We'd plotted our position by transposing the longitude on the coastal chart at our latitude...
    Without wishing to make suggestions about Dutch's vintage, it is quite possible that he was doing this at a time when sextants were the only form of navigation. Traffic separation schemes only emerged in the late 60s.
    I have a semi-retired colleague who was a merchant mariner in the 1950 and 1960s who relates spending days/weeks of dead reckoning across the Indian Ocean because there was never a clear shot at sun or stars. The idea was to sight Africa before you hit it, then turn to starboard for Suez.

  8. #78
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Farnham, Surrey
    Posts
    21,319

    Default Re: Navigating without a log

    Quote Originally Posted by newtothis View Post
    Without wishing to make suggestions about Dutch's vintage, it is quite possible that he was doing this at a time when sextants were the only form of navigation. Traffic separation schemes only emerged in the late 60s.
    I have a semi-retired colleague who was a merchant mariner in the 1950 and 1960s who relates spending days/weeks of dead reckoning across the Indian Ocean because there was never a clear shot at sun or stars. The idea was to sight Africa before you hit it, then turn to starboard for Suez.
    I quite agree. In my defence I perhaps should have made it clearer that I was comparing then with now... and what we got away with once upon a time to what would happen if a commercial ship was caught trying to leave port without minimum standards being met nowadays. Lots of incidents reported of ships being arrested or not permitted to proceed to sea in current times until things are put right safety and nav wise.
    Semper aliud

  9. #79
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Posts
    367

    Default Re: Navigating without a log

    Quote Originally Posted by john_morris_uk View Post
    Ouch!

    Very illegal and if the authorities had found out, I suspect even the Panamanian Authorities would nowadays suggest a trip to the chandlers to buy a few charts (you don't need many). ...
    This was c.1985 before GPS was generally available. Believe me the Panamanian authorities at that time did not give a monkeys. No charts available on a Monday afternoon in Fleetwood.

    Even on a British ships I trained on ( Bank Line Navigating Officer apprenticeship) we once crossed the Atlantic UK to South America with cloud all the way, so no celestial navigation. Had to rely on dead reckoning. We had a competition and one of the apprentices won predicting land fall within 5 miles. Everyone was within 30 miles. We just used radar to identify a prominent land shape and we knew where we were.

    If you think about it, in the 1980s before GPS, celestial sights were the only way of identifying position offshore, just the same as it was 200 years earlier.

  10. #80
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Farnham, Surrey
    Posts
    21,319

    Default Re: Navigating without a log

    I’m old enough to have been sailing in the 70’s let alone the 80’s. Do you remember RDF and trying to decipher the morse ID and the null as you swung the receiver round with the hand bearing compass on the top?

    And I’d get worried for hours after a passage across a bit of the chart that said ‘magnetic anomalies’ until I’d worked up a decent fix off Sun run Sun or known and recognised objects. All too often closing a coast to spot a church spire and then wonder which one it was on the chart.
    Semper aliud

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