Page 3 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 49

Thread: Mooring options

  1. #21
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    Bristol
    Posts
    484

    Default Re: Mooring options

    I admire your optimism :-)

    1. If you are thinking of living aboard in this country then I would suggest you do a lot more research on the realities of what this entails. Main issues are dealing with the winter, clubs not wanting you living full time on the boat, having to walk to the shower in the freezing rain in January etc. Also, a 40ft boat is not soo good for channel cruising as it is too big to get into a lot of places.
    2. You will not find a second hand boat that does not need at least some initial refit and the bigger the boat the bigger this becomes an issue. There will also be things that are impossible for the surveyor to check and when you receive the survey report it will be heavily caveated as such. My experience is that surveyors will air on the side of caution and will be advising primary, secondary and advisory defects.
    3. Here is where you do actually have some options, but you need to compare the annual cost including lifts and winter storage. Old boats pre 1990 should be taken out of the water to dry out for at least some of the winter, the longer the better. A 40 ft fin keel will fall over in the yard unless it is chocked up or in a cradle - this is an additional cost! so is the pressure washer in most places!! Don't compare monthly berthing charges but the annual cost (parking + cranes + pressure wash + chocking and shoring up).
    4. See above, if you want to keep the boat operational and actually go sailing in it, there is a minimum level of routine maintenance and not all of it can be done with the boat in the water. Now I am not saying you have to use the Marina's cranes and storage area. You could take the boat somewhere else for winter layup, but you need to work out a rough plan of options and costs, but the point I am making is that you need look at the annual costs not just the monthly parking charges.
    5. Again in my view, if you actually want to go sailing, there is a minimum level of ancillary equipment needed some of which may be part of the deal and come with the boat. There can be some savings, rubber wellies versus expensive leather boots for example but every sailor I have ever met will wear foul weather gear (some sort of supposedly waterproof and supposedly breathable but not very clothing when the weather is bad). We are in the bristol channel sailing temperate waters and not in the tropics after all. Regards the outboard, we have string tidal streams. There are many places to go for the weekend that require anchoring and taking the dinghy ashore. This is not a 100ft dinghy ride and trying to scull back to the boat you are either going to kill yourself, never make it back to the boat or end up asking for some kind of assistance to somehow get you back to the boat (which may or may not be available). The oars are a safety backup should the outboard conk out half way back to the boat.

    I'm not trying to be negative and put you off but trying to give you a realistic opinion.

    There is a Carter 40 for sale in CBYC. It's a blue water boat and has been around the world and I suggest you go and take a look at it as it is a great example of what can be achieved and what can happen when emotions take over common sense.

    Good luck.
    Last edited by steveej; 29-08-19 at 18:48.

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    Bristol
    Posts
    484

    Default Re: Mooring options

    A healthy set of tools and a knowledge of how to use them and a willingness to learn new skills is also essential to avoid extortionate yard charges which can also bankrupt you.

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Location
    Wales
    Posts
    914

    Default Re: Mooring options

    Unfortunately nope, I'm not thinking of living aboard at least not for extended periods (possibly up to five days at a time if I can get the care cover (hah good luck with that)). Sounds like sailing is a lot like camping! (Walking to showers in the freezing rain in January is a sport XD). Interesting that a 40ft boat is too big to get into a lot of places, I would have imagined that 40ft would more or less be the 'standard' size.

    Some initial refit is to be expected of course, (I'll definitely be staying away from teak refit jobs until I know what to replace the teak with!). Erring on the side of caution is great because it means I'll know more or less what I'm letting myself in for. Assuming I can find a half decent one. I don't mind the work as such I do however want to know how much time/money will be required. No point buying a boat at £9,000 if it's going to cost me £30,000 when I could buy a boat at £15,000 that needs £8,000. I'll do some additional research about the taking out of the water, as your advice runs counter to others so I'll try and find out the basis of this

    I definitely appreciate that the boat will need to come out of the water for routine maintenance, that's to be expected. I am however looking at annual costs. As indicated prior I haven't been looking too heavily at the maintenance yet, roughly working in big handfuls rather than specifics. I'd like to needle into that detail a bit later when I have more skills/experience/budget.

    As for the Carter 40, I can't seem to find a listing for it at all, not on the CBYC or on the major sale sites either :/.

    Edit:

    Kekekeke.... yes I'm aware of extortionate mechanics. Finding a good mechanic has always been a problem for me, not one of them seems to be able to do a job properly. (I've tried word of mouth, I've tried paying more, paying less and I'm still left with bodge jobs that I could have done myself at equal quality (that's how bad they are)).



    ------------------------------------------------------------
    Pretty much a new post

    So far my estimations for maintenance (over 10 years) seems to come to £49,000 (or £4,900 per annum) for a 35-40ft boat, not including insurance/berthing. Scheduling in a refit on the first year then every five years after + possible extra equipment. That includes insurance. It seems tight budget but is that more or less the ball park? (Edit: There are some things I've not factored in due to some things I just don't know about ). I think I'm scheduling in about 25% (estimated) of the boat in terms maintenance (no the boat is not going to be a top notch £50,000 yacht), maintenance in the first year appears to be just over half the value of the boat. So I'll be putting in 3x the worth of the boat XD

    All in all potentially looking at an annual budget of £8,500. (No wonder ownership rates are dropping!)
    Last edited by Luminescent; 30-08-19 at 10:17. Reason: Further research

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    Bristol
    Posts
    484

    Default Re: Mooring options

    My first boat was a Hurley 22R purchased for £2k, with £4.5k spent on refit, safety gear, charts etc. Sold for £2.5k. That taught me a lesson.

    Current boat purchased in February this year is a 2003 AWB 32ft French boat purchased for £30,500, immaculate down below but lacking in some basic maintenance. Current spend so far on refit, winter maintenance, safety gear, and ancillary equipment (not including tender, outboard, oilies or life Jackets) is £5k and it is still not finished as it needs a re-rig and a new life raft. I suspect it will be closer to £40k by the time it is finished.

    This has included dropping the swing keel which was heavily corroded where it sits in the well. Blasting, epoxy, priming, painting (£800) done by the yard and some work on the engine (new elbow, new thermostat, cleaning of the heat exchanger, new exhaust muffler mostly done by me with some assistance from the yard (another £1k), new seacocks (£500), basic safety gear (£350), spare anchor and rode (£300), lifts & chocking plus antifoul and anodes at an expensive marina (£700 though nearly £600 of that was Marina charges), solar panel installation as there is no electric at the new home berth (£100), additional tool purchases sand paper and ancillaries to do the work myself (£200), new domestic batteries 2 x 75amphr (£135), some new running rigging £250), charts binoculars and a 2019 almanac (£180), pots pans plates cutlery utensils kettle etc (£100). This is not a definitive list but shows the main things.

    The boat was completely bare but I brought a lot of things across from the previous boat (dinghy, outboard, lifejackets, oilies etc).

    In a couple of years time it will also need new sails (£3k basic, £5k better but no where near top of the range) so that needs to be budgeted for after the re-rig.

    Nevertheless, I believe my first year will be the worst and things will settle down into more of a standard maintenance regime with most of the budget going on replacement when things wear out or breakdown but only time will tell.

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Location
    Wales
    Posts
    914

    Default Re: Mooring options

    I now understand what chocking is btw.

    Thanks for the overview, a number of things I have covered (they go into my Misc maintenance box at the moment XD). There are some things I'll probably put off out of there (additional tool purchases largely and other shiny stuff). Some things are 'nice to have' others 'essential'. However £2,000 a year for misc maintenance should largely about cover that year on year.

    The budgeting for sails, I'm hoping will be included in the £4,500 that I have aside for more major items (though I'm looking at reducing that). As I'm not inherently a racer, the more basic sails should be fine, but again with that nice to have.

    The first year is definitely the worst (boat cost!), I'm factoring in more or less every fifth year will have a spike of about £5k. (Again would like to reduce :/ but I guess I should budget that and then recoup any savings).

    Very much nice to get some experienced feedback has allowed me to improve on my budget significantly. Though I'm finding it difficult to compare different boat yards as they seem to all have different fee structures :/.




    ---------
    Okay I've weighed up all my options and gone into some significant detail with regards to my budget. The facts generally speak for themselves. I've factored in pretty much the cheapest options of the cheapest options and doing the bare minimum. A relatively (if not optimistically cheap) boat. Annual maintenance fees (roughly), Administrative fees (Mooring/Insurance based on reasonable estimates). At a minimum for a 35-40ft boat, we're looking at a total annual budget requirement of £8,360 (monthly this would be £700~). This of course includes the boat cost over 10 years and does not include the cost of any potential finance. Some of the costs are unavoidable like Sail replacements.

    Admittedly as a cruiser rather than a racer, some things would last longer than advertised but likewise some things would break sooner. Unfortunately I'd need to knock off a fair amount to make it feasible (About £2,000). This could potentially be possible if I could guarantee I could get a cheaper mooring through one of the clubs, but I'd also need to reduce the maintenance costs (and that requires identifying other boat servicing facilities than just the marina yards it seems).

    More research I guess, but it's probably a dead end from the looks of it so far.
    Last edited by Luminescent; 30-08-19 at 11:54.

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    Bristol
    Posts
    484

    Default Re: Mooring options

    In my opinion you need to come down a size. If you take a look around the local marinas and clubs, I would say the vast majority of boat are less than 30ft. The costs are exponential as the size goes up. If you start looking at a more modern boat nearer 30ft which shouldn't need as much refit and has suffered less wear and tear then the numbers change dramatically. It should also still be worth something in 10 years time.

    What boats have you been looking at and where are you getting 40ft as being the standard size from?

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Location
    Wales
    Posts
    914

    Default Re: Mooring options

    Coming down too much of a size is unrealistic for me (other requirements on top of personal preference). Depreciation is not something I mind about because I generally don't sell anything.

    The 40ft comes from my observations (I generally don't hang around the clubs as no reason to be there), taking the average of the range of 'average' yacht sizes from the RYA and other organizations (which adds up to about 38ish and so on. Also most advice indicates something between 35 and 40ft is generally the most comfortable to sail. So ultimately, it'll depend on the boat itself as to whether I'll consider much smaller. Keel boats don't interest me >.> (by this I basically mean small yacht). If I can't afford to do what I want to do then I'll just have to swallow that.

    It's like cars, sure a Ford Fiesta will get me from A to B (by sometime next year) but I wouldn't want to own (another) one I'd sooner purchase a proper car that will do the job comfortably, in relatively good time and cost much less to maintain. The same can be said of Caravans...sure I can get a Freedom Microlight but then I can also get a 5 berth that I don't feel like a sardine and won't blow away at the first sign of a gust of wind.

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Shropshire - Sundance, Bristol Channel
    Posts
    1,052

    Default Re: Mooring options

    Are you going to be sailing with crew? Because that big gust of wind that might blow your caravan away may make a larger boat a bit of a handful on your own, especially if you've not had much experience. I'm not saying you wouldn't be able to handle it on your own but things like mooring in a tight marina, hoisting sails, sorting "issues" on the water are a lot harder the bigger you go.

    Best thing I can suggest is visit a few of the clubs and marinas and get talking to a few people. See if you like the club thing is your thing and if it is find one that you like, some people don't like it and prefer to do their own thing in a marina.
    Tom, Sundance
    2wheels1keel.com

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Location
    Wales
    Posts
    914

    Default Re: Mooring options

    Quote Originally Posted by Yellow Ballad View Post
    Are you going to be sailing with crew? Because that big gust of wind that might blow your caravan away may make a larger boat a bit of a handful on your own, especially if you've not had much experience. I'm not saying you wouldn't be able to handle it on your own but things like mooring in a tight marina, hoisting sails, sorting "issues" on the water are a lot harder the bigger you go.

    Best thing I can suggest is visit a few of the clubs and marinas and get talking to a few people. See if you like the club thing is your thing and if it is find one that you like, some people don't like it and prefer to do their own thing in a marina.
    Crew no (unlikely, though I will be taking additional lessons on my own boat initially), guests yes. However I won't be buying a boat until I have said experience (as I completely agree with you) and beyond that I'll be keeping my nose relatively clean as I begin to build 'real sailing' experience. I'm in no particular rush here I can take my time. I don't have places to be. That being said, while I'd love to singlehand a 70ft, I'm well aware that's far from feasible (also as pointed out by others; costly) . I'm also well aware I'm currently in no position to singlehand I don't have either the skills or the experience necessary hence the tuition. For example, how singlehanders put the mainsail away I have no idea yet :/.

    I've looked at a number of clubs in my area, but unless you're a boat owner and/or have the ability to hop on a boat, there seems to be very little point to them, none of them offer tuition and those that do stick rigorously to the RYA demanding at least one if not three nights out. (Not possible for me). One that'll go unmentioned demands prior experience in Dinghy's (or similar small vessels) before being allowed to go sailing with them...and I'm not interested in a dinghy whatsoever XD. It's something I'll have to look at closer to boat purchase (which the planned start date for that has been pushed back, until I can figure out how to reduce those maintenance costs).

    Points well taken and extra caution will be thrown in, planning more lessons before contemplating the plunge. Much appreciated.

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Location
    World wide.
    Posts
    295

    Default Re: Mooring options

    This is for sale in Cardiff marina. If I didn't already have a boat I would snap it upScreenshot_20190830_180833_com.android.chrome.jpg

Page 3 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Latest YBW News

Find Boats For Sale

to
to