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  1. #71
    Join Date
    May 2001
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    Jersey/Antibes
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    22,552

    Default Re: Syndicate Agreement Legal Question

    That’s a great idea. Might be £20 very well spent.

    Pete I have not tried amending your text because of the turd polish problem . Every sentence of 6.2 is awful, in a risky way for you. The first sentence is oxymoronic though harmless. The second sentence contains an obligation on one person to buy without a corresponding obligation on the other to sell- wtf?. And the obligation to buy is triggered by the mere existence of a wish ffs. What if you wish to buy for £100k but not £125k? Do you or don’t you have a wish? It’s just garbage. It doesn’t work for anyone to amend it on here. Turd polishing and see bjb’s wise words.

    So try the £20 job!

  2. #72
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Posts
    17,496

    Default Re: Syndicate Agreement Legal Question

    Quote Originally Posted by jfm View Post
    What if you wish to buy for £100k but not £125k?
    Texas shootout, possibly?

    Anyhow, regardless of the options, I think this is a substantial (rather than "just" legal) problem, in these shared agreements.

  3. #73
    Join Date
    May 2001
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    ation, Loc: ation, Loc: ation.
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    16,332

    Default Re: Syndicate Agreement Legal Question

    Quote Originally Posted by jfm View Post
    That’s a great idea. Might be £20 very well spent.

    Pete I have not tried amending your text because of the turd polish problem . Every sentence of 6.2 is awful, in a risky way for you. The first sentence is oxymoronic though harmless. The second sentence contains an obligation on one person to buy without a corresponding obligation on the other to sell- wtf?. And the obligation to buy is triggered by the mere existence of a wish ffs. What if you wish to buy for £100k but not £125k? Do you or don’t you have a wish? It’s just garbage. It doesn’t work for anyone to amend it on here. Turd polishing and see bjb’s wise words.

    So try the £20 job!
    If the leaver and remainers (for want of a better description ) fail to agree a price then the seller would need so sell his share on the open market.

    I'll download the £20 agreement but I suspect that:

    a) the drafting won't be up to the standards that you would find acceptable;
    b) it won't describe what I had in my flow chart above (and what I think we are all largely in agreement with) so will need amending (by me) which will bring up round full circle.

  4. #74
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Isle of Man
    Posts
    2,078

    Default Re: Syndicate Agreement Legal Question

    If you are all in agreement....including the the guy leaving.....does it matter right now ?

    Are you hoping to buy them out or are you thinking of the next shareholder?

    Best thing is to not need the contract...or do you suspect that will change?

  5. #75
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Boat- Western Med
    Posts
    5,214

    Default Re: Syndicate Agreement Legal Question

    There needs to be extraction certainty.
    So if a leaver canít find a buyer after a time period itís liquidised and the balance of proceeds divided up .
    Having said that to protect the likes of yourself, letís call you an enthusiastic owner imho the syndicate should have a minimum run time ,say 4 years or what ever .In this period no one can cock off sos folks know again with some certainty where they are or will be in that period.

    Once that time s there should be up the notice period window say Oct to Jan .If no notice is given then the syndicate with certainty rolls on into another season - booking flights , schedules of work , both members and maintenance of the boat .

    But ultimately in a boat share syndicate every member must know in the back of there mind itís a temporary bubble .
    Ok in my world artificially kept from popping by the initial 4 years or what ever buy in , but after that every years a bonus .

    I feel reading this Pete you want it be your boat ( in a cherished dreamy way ) go on for ever in a wonderland of shared ownership at 1/3 rd of the running costs etc and mentality canít get your head around it may one day just end outside your control and thus you are trying to regain the ending / exiting control to make life harder for leavers .

    The ultimate option to trigger a sale of a share and if unsuccessful for any reason, then go to syndicate dissolution and divide up the boat sale proceeds has always gotta be in there somewhere I,am afraid .

    As others have said ( JFM ) partner ships work on trust and empathy - talking to each other .
    Once a folks start waving bits of paper or worse emailing clauses of a contract how ever good / bad itís written ..... itís over .
    Last edited by Portofino; 12-09-19 at 08:53.

  6. #76
    Join Date
    May 2001
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    ation, Loc: ation, Loc: ation.
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    16,332

    Default Re: Syndicate Agreement Legal Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Portofino View Post
    I feel reading this Pete you want it be your boat ( in a cherished dreamy way ) go on for ever in a wonderland of shared ownership at 1/3 rd of the running costs etc and mentality can’t get your head around it may one day just end outside your control and thus you are trying to regain the ending / exiting control to make life harder for leavers .
    That's not the case in the slightest. We've had a few great years on the boat already (where did the time go?) and I'm not ready to bail out yet but might well be ready to bail in a few years, I simply do not know. But I certainly wouldn't want to be trapped in the thing nor would I expect any partner to be trapped.

    As anyone who's ever met or dealt with me will testify, I'm pretty laid back and reasonable. My only reason for starting this was to get some clarity over the meaning of the standard RYA Syndicate Agreement.

  7. #77
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Boat- Western Med
    Posts
    5,214

    Default Re: Syndicate Agreement Legal Question

    Quote Originally Posted by petem View Post
    That's not the case in the slightest. We've had a few great years on the boat already (where did the time go?) and I'm not ready to bail out yet but might well be ready to bail in a few years, I simply do not know. But I certainly wouldn't want to be trapped in the thing nor would I expect any partner to be trapped.

    As anyone who's ever met or dealt with me will testify, I'm pretty laid back and reasonable. My only reason for starting this was to get some clarity over the meaning of the standard RYA Syndicate Agreement.
    Apologies Pete , that’s what I see .Thx for the clarity.

  8. #78
    Join Date
    Jan 2019
    Location
    Hampshire
    Posts
    72

    Default Re: Syndicate Agreement Legal Question

    Quote Originally Posted by petem View Post
    That's not the case in the slightest. We've had a few great years on the boat already (where did the time go?) and I'm not ready to bail out yet but might well be ready to bail in a few years, I simply do not know. But I certainly wouldn't want to be trapped in the thing nor would I expect any partner to be trapped.

    As anyone who's ever met or dealt with me will testify, I'm pretty laid back and reasonable. My only reason for starting this was to get some clarity over the meaning of the standard RYA Syndicate Agreement.
    Shared boats always work fine until one party diverges from what the others want. It is always a problem no matter how much one tries. The contract as JFM says is ambiguous at best and guaranteed to result in exactly what it tries to prevent ie a shit fight. It would seem to me that the easiest solution here is complete clarity: if someone wishes to sell they give notice. At that point the boat is valued and if the other partners wish to buy them out then they pay that price. If not then the whole boat goes on the open market at which point if a bid comes in then either the remaining partners buy at that price (right of first refusal or a pre emptive right -seems fair as you wouldnt want to end up being a partner with someone you cannot stand) or it is sold and problem solved. the selling shareholder should absolutely have to pay their share of fixed costs until the point of sale. Not perfect - pre emptive rights sometimes put buyers off and prices can be manipulated potentially and of course there could be a case where absolutely no one wants to buy the boat and then what? - but at the end of the day a sole owner has this issue and unless he or she scuttles the boat or gives it away there are still fixed costs to pay. You are spot on to try to resolve this upfront in a clear and fair manner.

  9. #79
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    Poole
    Posts
    229

    Default Re: Syndicate Agreement Legal Question

    Quote Originally Posted by petem View Post
    That's not the case in the slightest. We've had a few great years on the boat already (where did the time go?) and I'm not ready to bail out yet but might well be ready to bail in a few years, I simply do not know. But I certainly wouldn't want to be trapped in the thing nor would I expect any partner to be trapped.

    As anyone who's ever met or dealt with me will testify, I'm pretty laid back and reasonable. My only reason for starting this was to get some clarity over the meaning of the standard RYA Syndicate Agreement.
    Pete.
    I think u r getting a lot of negative comments on what u r trying to do. Shame such advice wasnt mentioned when u did your thread on setting up a boat share a few years ago.

    I hope u keep on going and see where u get.

    There has got to be a compromise agreement even if it is a polished turd. It may even be a broad category outline agreement that the boat share parties agree between themselves and fill in the dots as to what they are happy with. The most obvious being what happens financially if they cant sell their share.

    Without stating the obvious and I might have missed it but is there any way you and the party not wanting to sell can buy the 3rd share and go 50-50?

  10. #80
    Join Date
    May 2001
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    ation, Loc: ation, Loc: ation.
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    16,332

    Default Re: Syndicate Agreement Legal Question

    Quote Originally Posted by FARSCO View Post
    If you are all in agreement....including the the guy leaving.....does it matter right now ?

    Are you hoping to buy them out or are you thinking of the next shareholder?

    Best thing is to not need the contract...or do you suspect that will change?
    I have a partner selling and another buying. All very amicable but will result in a new agreement being signed, hence the query. I've no reason to believe I will ever have to rely on the contract but one never knows!

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