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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Essex
    Posts
    22,904

    Default Re: Lazyjacks re-think

    My shock cords are similar to the picture except that they only extend from halfway along the spreaders. They only widen the slot slightly but serve their chief purpose, which is to keep the lines away from the mast.

    I think that the battens will always be prone to catching on the lines but it must be better to have smooth ends. Many modern sails seem to achieve this by having the battens retained by a fold-in flap. These work well but I find them sometimes hard to insert.
    Far away is near at hand in images of elsewhere

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Location
    A Member State of the European Union
    Posts
    6,598

    Default Re: Lazyjacks re-think

    The shockcords seem like a good idea but how long do they last, exposed to the weather?

    The ends of my battens are flush with the leech but they still catch on the lazy jacks, which is why I pull the LJs up to the mast when not required.
    Last edited by Poignard; 05-09-19 at 18:14.
    "Brexit: like watching a library being burned down by people who can't read"

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Berkshire, UK
    Posts
    2,734

    Default Re: Lazyjacks re-think

    Quote Originally Posted by dancrane View Post
    ... I've no idea whether it is normal to loosen the topping lift when sailing - I assumed it always bears the boom's weight, rather than only replicating the effect of a boom crutch at rest.
    I didn't see anyone else comment on this. I'm sure that where yachts have a topping lift (rather than a sprung strut, for instance) it is certainly normal to loosen it when sailing, especially up-wind. That would be how to minimise twist and maximise flatness. Otherwise the mainsheet is merely tensioning the topping lift...

    Mike.

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    8,677

    Default Re: Lazyjacks re-think

    I see what you mean Mike, thanks.

    Not having needed or encountered certain items and lines, really messes with my understanding of what they're for.

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Posts
    381

    Default Re: Lazyjacks re-think

    I experimented with shock cords or partial shock cords and found that the sail weight would drag the bag to one side as they stretched and it would flop down.

    I ended up using thin line to each spreader connected where the spreader joins the mast. This low and narrow connection resulted in the lazy jacks triangles being close to the mast and narrowly spaced. On my boat this geometry means that the batons do not catch because they are aft of the lazy jacks after only a few meters of hoisting. Sail drops well.

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    8,677

    Default Re: Lazyjacks re-think

    That's interesting Dutch, thanks. I was afraid shockcord might flop under that strain.

    Your comment about the LJs not snagging if closer to the mast (as Daydream Believer said above) makes good sense, except that when I've moved my lazyjacks forward, a lot of the lowest few feet of leech flapped about untamed until I put ties around it. You say the system works "after only a few metres of hoisting", but the infuriating trouble I've found was mainly in that initial period.

    Also, in the absence of a topping lift, the reduced angle and the weight of boom and sail on the lazyjacks near to the mast made me worry about the load on the mast-tang. Not a problem that a normally-equipped yacht will encounter.

    I wonder if a pair of 'retractor-lines' that can temporarily haul the LJs forward of the leech, would stop the snagging issue best?

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Me: Johannesburg South Africa Yacht: Richards Bay East Coast Africa
    Posts
    7,136

    Default Re: Lazyjacks re-think

    Quote Originally Posted by dancrane View Post


    :
    If you replace the shock cord with a fixed block or bullseye fairlead that will deflect the lazy jacks in the same way, there will be no load or very little load on the spreader.

    I have also feed a line through lower the splitter rings / divert direct to the mast that allows it to easy pull back the lazy jacks back to the mast for ease the hoisting of the main.

    This pull back line can be routed back to the cockpit and the lazy jack line down the mast to the tensioned with shock cords it make it easy to raise the main from the cockpit and keeps the lazy jacks from chafing the sails if left in position
    Life is too short not to have a sea view
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  8. #28
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    7,204

    Default Re: Lazyjacks re-think

    Quote Originally Posted by dancrane View Post
    This may not work, or even be worth trying...just a thought. The long down-parts on my lazyjacks are a pain, leading to the shroud bases. These tails almost double the length of line required, they tangle easily and aren't close to hand when I need to adjust them.

    I'm thinking that if the line on each side began at the spreaders and led down through the usual triangles to the boom, the aftermost part of which was adjustable with a boom-mounted clam-cleat, then the tension could still be altered but the amount of rope needed could be much reduced.

    Also, is there an overpowering reason why lazyjacks are attached close to the mast, rather than out on the spreaders? If the lines could be spread (permanently, or temporarily with an adjuster), there'd be much less snagging of battens.
    I haven't read everything, but I think you have a pretty small boat, no?

    Here is something I did on a small boat
    - tie lazyjacks (one line) to spreaders at the mast, then run down towards end of boom and make it off with a rolling hitch
    - put a loop in the lazy jack line about 1/3rd from the top (any knot that will give you a loop in the middle of a line - e.g. figure 8 on a bight)
    - run another lazy jack line from near the middle of the boom to near the gooseneck, via the loop. Make it fast in the middle of the boom with a bowline and towards the gooseneck with another rolling hitch.

    If the boat is small enough you can adjust the tension on the lazyjacks by adjusting the rolling hitches. Obviously you have to adjust them so that the hitch is not too high when the lines are tight.

    As I think about it, you could even modify this system so the two adjustable hitches are mid-boom and near the gooseneck.

    Downside is you need to adjust four rolling hitches - two each side. But that isn't normally a problem on a small boat.

    And use thin lines. Maybe 3 mm.

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Posts
    381

    Default Re: Lazyjacks re-think

    Quote Originally Posted by dancrane View Post
    That's interesting Dutch, thanks. I was afraid shockcord might flop under that strain.

    Your comment about the LJs not snagging if closer to the mast (as Daydream Believer said above) makes good sense, except that when I've moved my lazyjacks forward, a lot of the lowest few feet of leech flapped about untamed until I put ties around it. You say the system works "after only a few metres of hoisting", but the infuriating trouble I've found was mainly in that initial period.
    I think that maybe the best solution is different for every boat. I had to experiment a bit and discovered what worked for me. Fixing points on each side of the mast at spreader height and a short aft triangle means that the sail goes up without catching and drops into the bag properly. My boat is a 28 foot Dehler with a reasonably tall and narrow sail.

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    8,677

    Default Re: Lazyjacks re-think

    Quote Originally Posted by bbg View Post
    Here is something I did on a small boat
    - tie lazyjacks (one line) to spreaders at the mast, then run down towards end of boom and make it off with a rolling hitch
    - put a loop in the lazy jack line about 1/3rd from the top (any knot that will give you a loop in the middle of a line - e.g. figure 8 on a bight)
    - run another lazy jack line from near the middle of the boom to near the gooseneck, via the loop. Make it fast in the middle of the boom with a bowline and towards the gooseneck with another rolling hitch.
    It certainly sounds practical, thanks. And I've learned to tie a rolling hitch since reading this!

    I made lazyjacks for the dinghy out of spare 6mm braided line. Not very scientific but it works okay and keeps the cockpit clear. I've probably superimposed the minor issues they've given me, upon the set-ups employed by yachts, which are better thought out.


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