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  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Posts
    9

    Default Yachts for Sale Descriptions

    Why is it that so many for sale ads lack the key elements such as engine hours, age and condition of sails, age of standing rigging and the type and vintage of the autopilot? On websites like Moody owners, it gets even more coy when some sellers can't even bring themselves to disclose the asking price. I recently enquired after a boat and after making my way through the seven veils of such meaningless terms as " serviceable", it turned out that the rigging, sails and instruments and autopilot all needed replacing.
    Last edited by francophile51; 05-09-19 at 18:13.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    4,818

    Default Re: Yachts for Sale Descriptions

    Well we ( https://www.yachtsnet.co.uk/ ) try to give as accurate and detailed an inventory as possible, but often it's just not possible.

    Even when the boat has had (for example) a new autopilot or sails in the present ownership, many owners regard anything they have paid for in the 15 years they have owned the boat as "new". Many owners just don't keep full records. If someone has owned the boat a shorter time and receipts for expenditure have not been kept and passed on then with the best will in the world no-one can tell how old some stuff is. We do try to do some "forensics" - we recently met a Yanmar engine that was supposedly installed new in 2010 according to the previous brokers advert. Well it might have been, but there was no paperwork and that model engine went out of production several years earlier. Not that there was anything wrong with it, it ran beautifully. As for engine hours, how many Yanmar or Volvo LCD hour counters are still working after five to ten years?

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    Sail on the Medway, Kent from Chatham Maritime Marina
    Posts
    1,912

    Default Re: Yachts for Sale Descriptions

    You are asking what you should be paying a surveyor to check. You are not buying a new boat, so everything will be used unless it has just been fitted. Condition of any item is always subjective. What may be serviceable to many, could be a replacement in your eyes. No second hand boat will be perfect, it is finding the one with the least faults that you are prepared to accept.

    Asking prices are just that, what you want to know is how little are similar boats selling for. That knowledge will help you decide what you are prepared to pay for a boat.

    If you are unhappy just looking at adverts, just wait until you see some of the boats in real life. You will quickly dismiss many within minutes as you may not like the interior layout, the upholstery colours, the interior woodwork condition, how dirty the boat is inside and out, etc. Try and find a boat that has been regularly used as the equipment will more likely have been looked after and serviced. Always buy the best condition boat you can find, it will cost more to buy, but cost less in repairs and replacements.

    It may seem strange, but 85% of boats in marinas rarely leave their berth during the season. They are used as floating cottages and sailed for a fortnights holiday.

    Just remember the best 2 days of yacht ownership are the day you buy it and the day you sell it.
    If my foresight was as good as my hindsight, I would be a multi-millionaire.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Fareham
    Posts
    6,659

    Default Re: Yachts for Sale Descriptions

    I went to look at one where the broker had the draft and keel type wrong. And the boat was ashore!
    ۞

  5. #5
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Cambridge, UK
    Posts
    6,164

    Default Re: Yachts for Sale Descriptions

    Quote Originally Posted by jwilson View Post
    As for engine hours, how many Yanmar or Volvo LCD hour counters are still working after five to ten years?
    Or, in the case of Volvo 2000 series, even have an engine hour meter? Mine doesn't - though it might soon, as I think the original rev counter has given up the ghost.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Posts
    9

    Default Re: Yachts for Sale Descriptions

    If an engine doesn't have an hour meter or it doesn't work isn't the point. If these are the facts let the ad reflect them
    The questions of engine hours, rigging age and age and model of an autopilot aren't subjective they are questions of fact. As for sails, "serviceable" seems to be a euphemism for knackered. I also don't buy the idea that owners don't keep invoices for substantial investments in such a significant asset When I am trying to gather information from ads, it's the first stage in the sifting process, sorting out the wheat from the chaff.Down the years, I have bought 7 classic cars and one aircraft and I've got to say that this part of the process was a lot more open and transparent.

  7. #7
    photodog is offline Lord High Commander of Upper Broughton and Gunthorpe
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    35,517

    Default Re: Yachts for Sale Descriptions

    Quote Originally Posted by francophile51 View Post
    Why is it that so many for sale ads lack the key elements such as engine hours, age and condition of sails, age of standing rigging and the type and vintage of the autopilot? On websites like Moody owners, it gets even more coy when some sellers can't even bring themselves to disclose the asking price. I recently enquired after a boat and after making my way through the seven veils of such meaningless terms as " serviceable", it turned out that the rigging, sails and instruments and autopilot all needed replacing.
    Welcome to boat buying.

    All of the points you raise are subjective. Your idea of when and what may need replacement are entirely down to your judgment. If the sails go up and down and the boat moves... they are serviceable. If the AP keeps the boat pointing in the right direction, irrespective of age, it’s servicable... etc etc...

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Surrey and Gosport UK
    Posts
    1,644

    Default Re: Yachts for Sale Descriptions

    I would have thought that when looking at an advert any relevant "new" features on a secondhand boat would be flagged up however just saying that a particular sail was new in say 2015 tells you little if you are interested in quality of sails . I guess it's a question of directing your due diligence questions to the broker and maybe thinking about the broker a bit more as being reflective of the owners attitude ( assuming a broker sale). I think the point you make re classic cars at least might not apply to many in the Moody world who might have bought their yachts many years ago as opposed to classic cars which are generally not bought new . In reality if looking for a certain size age and model the market is fairly narrow so with a predetermined list of questions quite easy to fire off to seller surely?

  9. #9
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Posts
    9

    Default Re: Yachts for Sale Descriptions

    Quote Originally Posted by photodog View Post
    Welcome to boat buying.

    All of the points you raise are subjective. Your idea of when and what may need replacement are entirely down to your judgment. If the sails go up and down and the boat moves... they are serviceable. If the AP keeps the boat pointing in the right direction, irrespective of age, it’s servicable... etc etc...
    I am sorry but you are simply wrong , the questions are questions of fact. It might help if you had taken the trouble to read through the thread and particularly my second post.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Posts
    1,007

    Default Re: Yachts for Sale Descriptions

    A friend and I fell for the classic ‘photo of boat from twenty years ago’ the other night. Second time it’s happened to me.

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