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  1. #31
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Location
    Wales
    Posts
    914

    Default Re: Yachts for Sale Descriptions

    Thank you for your advice, that does clear up a few things. I've found a surveyor that's happy to do a pre-sale walk around (offering it as a service) so that's one option. Thankfully, haul outs and a wash down is not as expensive as some would like me to believe but that does depend on where the boat is I guess. Seems like it would be (in theory, probably not in practice) better to buy a boat that's already on hard standing. Of course, this will restrict how many boats I can have surveyed each year :/.

    And I am aware you're not joking about that every month expenditure!

    And unless the expense is over £500 to fix, I'm unlikely to quibble, but I do want to know all of the problems so that I can make myself a checklist and tick them off as they're done.

  2. #32
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Med
    Posts
    6,200

    Default Re: Yachts for Sale Descriptions

    Second part
    This lead me to surveyor, someone like your self there no doubt you need to employ a surveyor , personally knowing what I know I not sure they worth the money they charge .
    As already said else where there many important parts of the boat that they don't check as one would expect they would .
    Rigging , I only every seen a visible inspection and I seen many survey , I never seen one climba mast , normally you need to pay a rigger if you want a rig survey.
    Engine and box they will run the engine and check for sound , noise smoke , they check oil and what it looks like and that's about it , if you want oil tested you need to send it away , but if it just been change there no point , you really you need a engineer to give the engine a good going over .
    So what are you paying for ?
    A moisture test on the hull , their expert opinion of keel bolts rudders and hull which is some thing most of us are not experienced or seen enough to estimate the condition.
    The rest is a visual survey basically which most of us can do any way , who have had experience with boats ,
    we can all turn on electronics and see if they work , we can all see dent scatch .
    And if they do miss some thing done expect to sue them , you find some thing in the small print to safe safe gaurd them .
    Last edited by sailaboutvic; 07-09-19 at 18:24.
    Warning forumite dyslexia near by
    www.bluewatersailorcroatia.webs.com

  3. #33
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Solent
    Posts
    3,994

    Default Re: Yachts for Sale Descriptions

    Quote Originally Posted by Daydream believer View Post
    Nice try Jonic but I don't fancy it
    I never said you could have it....
    John Rodriguez Yachts - Cruising & Bluewater Yachts www.jryachts.com

  4. #34
    photodog is offline Lord High Commander of Upper Broughton and Gunthorpe
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    35,423

    Default Re: Yachts for Sale Descriptions

    Quote Originally Posted by francophile51 View Post
    I am sorry but you are simply wrong , the questions are questions of fact. It might help if you had taken the trouble to read through the thread and particularly my second post.
    I did read your second post, but I wasn't addressing that. What I was addressing was Your first post and the presumption that somehow the concepts you expressed where definable in fact... they are not... and even in your second post where you say these facts should be given, they will not define the sevicability or condition of those items.

    Your seeking precision and consistency where none exists, the condition and values for these items are device dependent, and even then these conditions and values will vary in their nature according to individual stakeholders.

    Welcome to the world of boat buying, Itís the ultimate free market where buyer must beware.

  5. #35
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Boat Orwell - Me Norwich
    Posts
    8,205

    Default Re: Yachts for Sale Descriptions

    Quote Originally Posted by photodog View Post
    Welcome to boat buying.

    All of the points you raise are subjective. Your idea of when and what may need replacement are entirely down to your judgment. If the sails go up and down and the boat moves... they are serviceable. If the AP keeps the boat pointing in the right direction, irrespective of age, it’s servicable... etc etc...
    Quote Originally Posted by francophile51 View Post
    I am sorry but you are simply wrong , the questions are questions of fact. It might help if you had taken the trouble to read through the thread and particularly my second post.
    No, Photodog is not wrong. He offered you good advice.

    More fool you if you think either that a term like 'serviceable' cannot include something that another owner might replace, or that being so rude to people responding politely to your posts is a good way to introduce yourself to the forum.

  6. #36
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Med
    Posts
    6,200

    Default Re: Yachts for Sale Descriptions

    Quote Originally Posted by LittleSister View Post
    No, Photodog is not wrong. He offered you good advice.

    More fool you if you think either that a term like 'serviceable' cannot include something that another owner might replace, or that being so rude to people responding politely to your posts is a good way to introduce yourself to the forum.
    Cool down , the guy new to this , us who been here a very long time should by now know , how some Posting can be mistaken for some thing else , my posting at time can be read at times has confrontation, when really they not .
    Warning forumite dyslexia near by
    www.bluewatersailorcroatia.webs.com

  7. #37
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Posts
    9

    Default Re: Yachts for Sale Descriptions

    I am sorry if you believe that my response was rude. I tend to get a bit tetchy when I'm told more than once that facts are not facts. I'm going to try again. I am simply asking for the facts of a boat to be included in a description. I specifically singled out engine hours, age of rigging and sails and the age and model of autopilot because they are going to be costly to replace. Having acquired those facts, you have then a basis for comparisons with similar vessels and their asking prices. I don't imagine for a second that this will be the end of the story but it gives you a means of performing an initial analysis of the "condition" of essential elements and value for money. In fact, it does more than that. If the rigging, sails and AP have been replaced it might suggest that the owner is a sailor and that his enthusiasm might feed into a conscientious overall approach to upkeep. Similarly, I try to look beyond the images of the boat. I think that you can tell a lot from the "housekeeping". My motivation is to try and avoid that dreadful moment when having just driven 200 miles you are presented with a lemon.
    A final word on " serviceable". A spray hood might be serviceable because it stops water from dripping down your neck even though it's window might be opaque, stitching undone and fastenings broken. "As new, very good, good, poor and needs replacing"might give much less scope for ambiguity. A final final word. If the information isn't in the ad I will ask for it so it will save brokers, owners and interested parties like me a lot of wasted time if it's provided in the first place.

  8. #38
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Fareham
    Posts
    6,657

    Default Re: Yachts for Sale Descriptions

    "If the information isn't in the ad I will ask for it"

    Seems like the obvious solution.

  9. #39
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    South Oxfordshire, Gosport and Wellington New Zealand.
    Posts
    8,212

    Default Re: Yachts for Sale Descriptions

    Quote Originally Posted by francophile51 View Post
    I am sorry if you believe that my response was rude. I tend to get a bit tetchy when I'm told more than once that facts are not facts. I'm going to try again. I am simply asking for the facts of a boat to be included in a description. I specifically singled out engine hours, age of rigging and sails and the age and model of autopilot because they are going to be costly to replace. Having acquired those facts, you have then a basis for comparisons with similar vessels and their asking prices. I don't imagine for a second that this will be the end of the story but it gives you a means of performing an initial analysis of the "condition" of essential elements and value for money. In fact, it does more than that. If the rigging, sails and AP have been replaced it might suggest that the owner is a sailor and that his enthusiasm might feed into a conscientious overall approach to upkeep. Similarly, I try to look beyond the images of the boat. I think that you can tell a lot from the "housekeeping". My motivation is to try and avoid that dreadful moment when having just driven 200 miles you are presented with a lemon.
    A final word on " serviceable". A spray hood might be serviceable because it stops water from dripping down your neck even though it's window might be opaque, stitching undone and fastenings broken. "As new, very good, good, poor and needs replacing"might give much less scope for ambiguity. A final final word. If the information isn't in the ad I will ask for it so it will save brokers, owners and interested parties like me a lot of wasted time if it's provided in the first place.
    The best advice that I can give you based upon the purchase of thousands of Motorcycles and cars during a 50 year career in the vehicle trade plus the personal purchase of 5 yachts within the last 17 years and helping with the survey of several more is the following:-

    ' Believe nothing you hear and only half of what you see! '

    Jonic does the job as well as any broker I have ever met-in fact better.

    Trouble is, they are not all as good.

    We have always sold our boats well, but we put the hours in presenting them properly.

    In my direct experience, not all brokers/owners bother.

    That appears to be the significant difference.

  10. #40
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Location
    Wales
    Posts
    914

    Default Re: Yachts for Sale Descriptions

    If it isn't in the Ad it's probably broken!

    Which is why I worry when they list boats without beam measurements. >.>

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