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  1. #51
    Join Date
    May 2007
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    Cambridge, UK
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    6,080

    Default Re: Yachts for Sale Descriptions

    Quote Originally Posted by Luminescent View Post
    The cost of the survey I'm perfectly okay with, it tells me whether I want to walk away from the deal or not. If seller is not prepared to budge (or I think the boat isn't worth the repair costs), I'll let the seller know and walk away. A survey is non-destructive and no damage should ever be incurred (will promptly go after the surveyor if any damage is done). I think any buyer is entitled to have a full view of what they are purchasing before any money changes hands. If that means pulling the boat out of the water (of course paid for by the potential buyer) without deposit/contract, so be it. That's how it worked when I've done other large purchases, but it seems boats are their own special case.

    If the survey is a £2,000 and the boat is £12,000 and the surveyor says, "Run." Then he's saved me £10,000 and probably no end of repair costs. You have to be prepared to walk away from a deal at the end of the day.

    Edit: Oops, I wasn't actually intending to bring Brexit into this thread.
    A survey worth the paper it's written on MAY cause minor damage - for example, I have coppercoat on my boat, and if the surveyor wished to determine the water content of the hull, he would probably have to remove it from several small areas of the hull to get moisture readings. Patching coppercoat is non-trivial. There are many similar examples where a surveyor might have to cause minor damage in order to determine the condition of a boat - nothing that isn't regarded as normal maintenance, but more than I would tolerate without an agreement that the boat is sold "subject to survey". There are other issues around the cost of lifting in and out of the water - who pays for any required lifts?

  2. #52
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
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    Solent
    Posts
    3,992

    Default Re: Yachts for Sale Descriptions

    Quote Originally Posted by AntarcticPilot View Post
    Vic, I'm aware of the reasons you will prefer video, but I'm afraid that a video as the only description of a boat would totally preclude me from even looking - I hate being made to wait through a video when a text description and a few photos would do the job equally well; the difference is that still photos and text allow me to take in information at the rate I control; videos force me to take it at the rate the video allows. And I read and take in visual information at a rate much faster than a real-time video allows, and prefer non-linear presentation mode that allow me to skip backwards and forwards at will.

    I'd agree that a video might be useful addition to a sales description, as I am well aware that my attitude to video presentation of information is a minority one, but if it was the only presentation of information, I'd skip the ad.

    Actually you are not in the minority at all. We have now researched this extensively. It varies from market to market, but really interested buyers - rather than those watching for entertainment, want a short (circa 3 min), easy to understand walkthrough that they can pause as they wish. We used to film a 15min video with a voice over but feedback has been more as you outlined in your post.

    So now we shoot short, non-voiced, clearly defined areas of the boat in a logical sequence. The detail is then in the text description and further detail specific to that buyer will be over the phone and finally in person.

    http://www.jryachts.com/yachts-for-s...ter-56/1776479

    Even the video in the one above will be too long for some people and will be scrolled through to suit, but it's a reasonably happy medium and works in tandem with the photography.
    Last edited by jonic; 09-09-19 at 17:10.
    John Rodriguez Yachts - Cruising & Bluewater Yachts www.jryachts.com

  3. #53
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Southampton
    Posts
    35,518

    Default Re: Yachts for Sale Descriptions

    Quote Originally Posted by jonic View Post
    Actually you are not in the minority at all. We have now researched this extensively. It varies from market to market, but really interested buyers - rather than those watching for entertainment, want a short (circa 3 min), easy to understand walkthrough that they can pause as they wish. We used to film a 15min video with a voice over but feedback has been more as you outlined in your post.
    Good, because I'd agree.

    Video is great for some things - demonstrating some hands-on technique, for instance - but it's otherwise not a very information-dense form of communication.

    In boat listings I find it good for two things -
    1. Filling in the gaps when the selection of photos is poor. "They didn't think to show what's in that other corner, but maybe it's in the background of a sweeping shot as the cameraman turns round...". Not a problem on your listings, I'm sure
    2. Showing the layout when it's not apparent from the photos or obvious for the type of boat. And actually, I'd probably prefer a picture of the accommodation plan to look at, rather than putting it together in my head from several minutes of video.


    No harm in having a video on there as well as the writing and pictures. But I know on Boatshed for example, I very rarely click on them.

    Pete

  4. #54
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Southampton
    Posts
    35,518

    Default Re: Yachts for Sale Descriptions

    Totally irrelevant to this thread, but having now looked at the listing I'm curious - what's the contraption on the cockpit bulkhead next to the helmsman's left foot? I can see what looks like a pressure gauge, and something that could be a line-handling gadget off a racing dinghy, and then in one of the wider shots it looks like a large knob or handle at the bottom.

    Also if she was mine I would totally replace that panel on the aft face of the binnacle with the builder's name and address smack in the middle of it. Fine for a nice plate tucked away somewhere, but the helmsman doesn't need to spend thousands of miles looking at the showroom ticket

    Pete

  5. #55
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Med
    Posts
    6,153

    Default Re: Yachts for Sale Descriptions

    Went I sold my last boat privately, which we did because we felt not only the brokers in that part of Greece both UK brokers by the way , not only had a very bad reputation with both sellers and buyer , but the sale valve we was told that would sell our boat I felt was very low .

    We had six year old boat which I had from new , equip to the hill and Very well kept and maintained,
    they where compare it with ex charter some much older which where sold .
    and it seen I was right , has we sold it privately for many more thousand of pounds after taken a offer .

    We build a wed site with full details of the boat , we added photos to that site and we also added the film we taken , which was so long it had to be broken in three parts .
    We put ads in Apollo Duck and the yacht market ,
    before the film was added to our web site we got hardly any responds ,
    And the once we did get was from brokers offing to take the boat on .

    There was six other Dufour 385 on the market cheaper then our , within 10 days of adding the film on the web site emails started arriving
    On the basics of the film We I had a contract sign and deposit paid within 20 days of the film added to the site at the same time we had three people flying out to view , the first guy who view after known we had two more coming to view sign a contract the next day .
    Conversation I had with all three was they where only coming out because of the film , suggesting where made that they fed up viewing boat when the photo didn't match up to the boats they where viewing .

    I admin we only had one boat to sell so it was time consuming making the film and it took us hours to get it right , but it paid off

    There a big different between a private sell and a broker , the private sell only as one boat to sell where the broker has many and if a viewer doesn't like what he see the broker may steer him into another boat .

    I only have my experience to go by and when the time comes to sell again I will be doing the same thing .
    It's the end result that matters not what others may think.
    Last edited by sailaboutvic; 09-09-19 at 18:49.
    Warning forumite dyslexia near by
    www.bluewatersailorcroatia.webs.com

  6. #56
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Solent
    Posts
    3,992

    Default Re: Yachts for Sale Descriptions

    Quote Originally Posted by prv View Post
    Totally irrelevant to this thread, but having now looked at the listing I'm curious - what's the contraption on the cockpit bulkhead next to the helmsman's left foot? I can see what looks like a pressure gauge, and something that could be a line-handling gadget off a racing dinghy, and then in one of the wider shots it looks like a large knob or handle at the bottom.

    Pete
    Hydraulic backstay and vang adjustment from cockpit
    John Rodriguez Yachts - Cruising & Bluewater Yachts www.jryachts.com

  7. #57
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Location
    Wales
    Posts
    705

    Default Re: Yachts for Sale Descriptions

    Quote Originally Posted by AntarcticPilot View Post
    A survey worth the paper it's written on MAY cause minor damage - for example, I have coppercoat on my boat, and if the surveyor wished to determine the water content of the hull, he would probably have to remove it from several small areas of the hull to get moisture readings. Patching coppercoat is non-trivial. There are many similar examples where a surveyor might have to cause minor damage in order to determine the condition of a boat - nothing that isn't regarded as normal maintenance, but more than I would tolerate without an agreement that the boat is sold "subject to survey". There are other issues around the cost of lifting in and out of the water - who pays for any required lifts?
    The potential buyer would pay for any lift (and return to previous condition if necessary).

    Now, I'll largely defer to your experience (and assume that some damage may be necessary), but from what I can tell... isn't it more efficient to measure water content from *inside* rather than outside the hull? (David Pascoe, Yachtsurvey) Would that not get around that particular one? I know very little GRP osmosis however. I appreciate that's not the point and perhaps another test may require damage :P.

    Provided the potential buyer is willing to put right any 'damage' no matter how minor, then I don't see the 'sold subject to survey' as a requirement. Any destructive tests deemed necessary should be agreed prior to them being carried out and it's up to the buyer to walk away if they're not happy with not being able to do them. As an owner I wouldn't be happy without some kind of compensation if any damage were to be incurred.

    Of course by that point the surveyor has probably said, "Yep, the boat looks to be lovely condition (as far as non destructive tests are concerned)", so you're probably prepared to commit to the "sold subject to survey" at any rate.
    Last edited by Luminescent; 09-09-19 at 20:06.

  8. #58
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Southampton
    Posts
    35,518

    Default Re: Yachts for Sale Descriptions

    Quote Originally Posted by jonic View Post
    Hydraulic backstay and vang adjustment from cockpit
    Thanks - with so much after-deck between cockpit and backstay I can see why you'd want that

    Pete

  9. #59
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Solent
    Posts
    3,992

    Default Re: Yachts for Sale Descriptions

    Quote Originally Posted by prv View Post
    Thanks - with so much after-deck between cockpit and backstay I can see why you'd want that

    Pete
    John Rodriguez Yachts - Cruising & Bluewater Yachts www.jryachts.com

  10. #60
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Cambridge, UK
    Posts
    6,080

    Default Re: Yachts for Sale Descriptions

    Quote Originally Posted by Luminescent View Post
    The potential buyer would pay for any lift (and return to previous condition if necessary).

    Now, I'll largely defer to your experience (and assume that some damage may be necessary), but from what I can tell... isn't it more efficient to measure water content from *inside* rather than outside the hull? (David Pascoe, Yachtsurvey) Would that not get around that particular one? I know very little GRP osmosis however. I appreciate that's not the point and perhaps another test may require damage :P.

    Provided the potential buyer is willing to put right any 'damage' no matter how minor, then I don't see the 'sold subject to survey' as a requirement. Any destructive tests deemed necessary should be agreed prior to them being carried out and it's up to the buyer to walk away if they're not happy with not being able to do them. As an owner I wouldn't be happy without some kind of compensation if any damage were to be incurred.

    Of course by that point the surveyor has probably said, "Yep, the boat looks to be lovely condition (as far as non destructive tests are concerned)", so you're probably prepared to commit to the "sold subject to survey" at any rate.
    I merely gave moisture content as an example, where surveyors commonly remove patches of antifoul to perform the test - access to the exterior of a hull is MUCH better than access to the interior, and internal coverings may interfere with the test and cause even more damage than external access. But there are other things that may cause minor damage; surveyors carry out physical probes of material with spikes, knives and hammers. No-one is doing a survey on my boat without a firm commitment to proceed in the shape of a deposit, which would be refundable if the survey turned up something that said "walk away" (which isn't going to happen).

    Frankly, I don't see the problem. If you like a boat and she has the features you want, then the purpose of the survey isn't to help you decide whether or not this is the boat for you - it is to determine the condition of this particular example, and whether there are any unforeseen problems that merit negotiation on price or (in the very worst case) walking away. If you aren't certain whether a boat is for you, then it's probably a waste of time and money having a survey - the survey won't help you make up your mind, it will simply tell you the condition of the boat. Whether it's the right boat for you depends on other factors that are personal to you, and the only person who can decide that is you - not a surveyor.
    Last edited by AntarcticPilot; 10-09-19 at 09:38.

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