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  1. #11
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Boat: Falmouth. Work: Cambridge
    Posts
    1,386

    Default Re: colregs question

    I agree with others that, according to the OP's description, the other boat was overtaking - but whatever don't feel bad about it because he was not gong to win his race anyway. As already noted, his tactics were rotten! If he's both faster and points higher overtaking on the windward side was the better policy. But that's the problem often with racing crews; the ones who are actually going to win don't cause us cruisers any issues and it's those with little or no tactical understanding (ie the losers) who get in these pickles.

    I had a similar but opposite issue once: a huge and unbroken line of racing boats on stbd tack - miles and miles of them, and I wanted to get across them while approaching on port tack; what to do? I elected to change to stbd tack and point higher. Thus I was slower but gradually made it across the line of racing yachts and was then able tack away to port. Was I irresponsible / in breach of rules or etiquette? I don't know, (would value opinion but don't want to hijack the OP's thread). What was noticeable is that the tail-end Charlies tried to pass to windward and so were delayed whereas the leading boats in their category just ducked under us (albeit maybe cursing me).

  2. #12
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    406

    Default Re: colregs question

    Quote Originally Posted by lw395 View Post
    From the OP's description it's not entirely guaranteed that this is not a windward boat situation.
    You need to be absolutely sure you have held a constant course from before the 'overtaking' boat crossed the 22.5degree line. I.e. as stand on vessel to the overtaking vessel, have you fulfilled your obligation to stand on?

    How much higher was the other boat pointing?
    I can't see that the OP could not have luffed up a little, slowing a little without risk of 'going into irons'.

    It would be interesting to hear the other side.

    If you encounter someone like this, it's better to luff up and let them pass or even tack off. Nobody is awarding you any prizes for being in the right and the primary thing is always to avoid a collision.
    I was also curious why he wanted to get in my wind shadow. I guess he thought keeping his line was more important than a few minutes of had air.
    I was just tootling along as close to the wind as I could get. Wind was steady so my course was too.
    He'd definitely come from behind, rather than across. The race fleet was going between the same two Islands as we were, and to have comee alongside so close on a similar bearing he would have had to cross through my 22.5 zone.
    In the end, I did luff up, which stalled the boat as I was already close on the wind. It was no big deal and as others have said just an inconvenience and better than a collision, but I was curious about the rules.
    From what the more experienced have said, I was in the right but did the right thing in taking avoiding action.

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Southampton
    Posts
    35,609

    Default Re: colregs question

    Quote Originally Posted by GHA View Post
    Standing on to the very end just to prove a point in situations like that is bad seamanship imho
    Not just bad seamanship, but also a breach of rule 17b

    We can summarise the different rule situations that apply as the (potentially) stand-on boat, as a (potentially) keep-clear boat gets closer:

    Long way off - no risk of collision - do whatever you like.
    Closer - risk of collision begins to exist - you must hold course and speed.
    Closer - the other vessel doesn't appear to be keeping clear - you may manoeuvre to avoid collision
    Very close - you must manoeuvre to avoid collision.

    Of course, the distances at which one situation turns into the next are massively debatable, and dependant on all kinds of factors like the size and type of the vessels, the location (open ocean or harbour channel), and so on. But wherever you place the divisions, the four stages still apply and I find them a useful structure in deciding what to do and when.

    Pete

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    East Coast
    Posts
    1,730

    Default Re: colregs question

    Quote Originally Posted by richardbrennan View Post
    My assumption from your description is that he was clearly the overtaking vessel and should have given way. However, in my experience, many racing boats appear to think that colregs do not apply to them!
    Regrettably this is generally the case in reality . Unfortunately clubs that run the races are
    not really interested .

    In a number of areas where I used to sail I now motor . Try to not let it spoil your day.
    It is never too late to have a happy childhood. Buy a boat.

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Hopefully somewhere warm
    Posts
    9,653

    Default Re: colregs question

    Quote Originally Posted by prv View Post
    Not just bad seamanship, but also a breach of rule 17b


    Keep forgetting about that one
    Though colreg threads can get a bit argumentative sometimes there's always reminders in them

    For some in depth reading >>

    https://khorramshahrport.pmo.ir/fa/f...f6b35e833c3aa2


  6. #16
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Atlantic
    Posts
    21,369

    Default Re: colregs question

    Quote Originally Posted by prv View Post
    Not just bad seamanship, but also a breach of rule 17b

    We can summarise the different rule situations that apply as the (potentially) stand-on boat, as a (potentially) keep-clear boat gets closer:

    Long way off - no risk of collision - do whatever you like.
    Closer - risk of collision begins to exist - you must hold course and speed.
    Closer - the other vessel doesn't appear to be keeping clear - you may manoeuvre to avoid collision
    Very close - you must manoeuvre to avoid collision.

    Of course, the distances at which one situation turns into the next are massively debatable, and dependant on all kinds of factors like the size and type of the vessels, the location (open ocean or harbour channel), and so on. But wherever you place the divisions, the four stages still apply and I find them a useful structure in deciding what to do and when.

    Pete
    Very good!.

  7. #17
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Posts
    24,997

    Default Re: colregs question

    Quote Originally Posted by GHA View Post
    Standing on to the very end just to prove a point in situations like that is bad seamanship imho, better to have some room spare. No one gets hurt and no gelcoat gets chipped
    I think we all agree with that - but the problem often is that by the time you decide to take action it can be hard to do without potentially making the situation worse if the other boat does take action.

    Had it been me I would have stood on until he was overlapped to leeward and too close for comfort and then I could have pinched an extra 5 degrees while he passed. Harder to do anything realistic at an earlier point

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Location
    Scarborough
    Posts
    635

    Default Re: colregs question

    Quote Originally Posted by prv View Post
    Not just bad seamanship, but also a breach of rule 17b

    We can summarise the different rule situations that apply as the (potentially) stand-on boat, as a (potentially) keep-clear boat gets closer:

    Long way off - no risk of collision - do whatever you like.
    Closer - risk of collision begins to exist - you must hold course and speed.
    Closer - the other vessel doesn't appear to be keeping clear - you may manoeuvre to avoid collision
    Very close - you must manoeuvre to avoid collision.

    Of course, the distances at which one situation turns into the next are massively debatable, and dependant on all kinds of factors like the size and type of the vessels, the location (open ocean or harbour channel), and so on. But wherever you place the divisions, the four stages still apply and I find them a useful structure in deciding what to do and when.

    Pete
    Very clearly put prv..if you did all the Rules like that, it would be a best-seller and made part of the RYA syllabus

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Location
    A Member State of the European Union
    Posts
    6,568

    Default Re: colregs question

    Has anyone mentioned sound signals?

    ColRegs Rule 34(d):

    (d) When vessels in sight of one another are approaching each other and from any cause either vessel fails to understand the intentions or actions of the other, or is in doubt whether sufficient action is being taken by the other to avoid collision, the vessel in doubt shall immediately indicate such doubt by giving at least five short and rapid blasts on the whistle. Such signal may be supplemented by a light signal of at least five short and rapid flashes.
    "Brexit: like watching a library being burned down by people who can't read"

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Location
    Scarborough
    Posts
    635

    Default Re: colregs question

    Quote Originally Posted by Poignard View Post
    Has anyone mentioned sound signals?

    ColRegs Rule 34(d):

    (d) When vessels in sight of one another are approaching each other and from any cause either vessel fails to understand the intentions or actions of the other, or is in doubt whether sufficient action is being taken by the other to avoid collision, the vessel in doubt shall immediately indicate such doubt by giving at least five short and rapid blasts on the whistle. Such signal may be supplemented by a light signal of at least five short and rapid flashes.
    A good point, for some reason ( like motoring cones..) they are not in common usage on yachts.

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