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  1. #21
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    38,150

    Default Re: colregs question

    Quote Originally Posted by bedouin View Post
    I think we all agree with that - but the problem often is that by the time you decide to take action it can be hard to do without potentially making the situation worse if the other boat does take action.

    Had it been me I would have stood on until he was overlapped to leeward and too close for comfort and then I could have pinched an extra 5 degrees while he passed. Harder to do anything realistic at an earlier point
    IF there's a faster, higher pointing boat coming up from astern on a collision course, I might consider bearing off to allow him to go to windward. He'll soon be past me and it won't cost me much. When he's overlapped, he's still give way. I've done this while racing. When a faster fleet comes through, minimising interaction is often best all round.

    Once he's overlapped to leeward, if you can't come up a few degrees from your optimal closehauled course, there is something wrong.

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Essex
    Posts
    22,861

    Default Re: colregs question

    Quote Originally Posted by lw395 View Post
    IF there's a faster, higher pointing boat coming up from astern on a collision course, I might consider bearing off to allow him to go to windward. He'll soon be past me and it won't cost me much. When he's overlapped, he's still give way. I've done this while racing. When a faster fleet comes through, minimising interaction is often best all round.

    Once he's overlapped to leeward, if you can't come up a few degrees from your optimal closehauled course, there is something wrong.
    The trouble with bearing off might be that in many positions it actually puts you onto a collision course, at least for a while. The only way to keep clear unambiguously is to tack, and this isn't always practicable. Heading upwind will lead to pinching, and if it is not done effectively, the increased leeway might even cause him to drift down further into the other boat's path. From the account given, it looks like the boat could be from any nationality, and while British racers can be bad enough, I myself would trust an unknown foreigner even less. Apart from the OP, none of us were there to assess the situation fully, so we may as well accept his judgement.
    Far away is near at hand in images of elsewhere

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Argyll
    Posts
    6,365

    Default Re: colregs question

    Quote Originally Posted by johnalison View Post
    From the account given, it looks like the boat could be from any nationality, and while British racers can be bad enough, I myself would trust an unknown foreigner even less. Apart from the OP, none of us were there to assess the situation fully, so we may as well accept his judgement.
    Fekking foreigners, they are everywhere these days; surely there must be something we can do about it?

  4. #24
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    38,150

    Default Re: colregs question

    Quote Originally Posted by johnalison View Post
    The trouble with bearing off might be that in many positions it actually puts you onto a collision course....
    Well if you're not on a collision course, there's no need to do anything.
    For sure it's the 'not sure' or 'too close' cases that cause the problems.
    If you're going to take pre-emptive action under colregs, You need to do it good and early.

    Tacking on to starboard while the fleet goes by on port isn't usually the worst option.

    I suspect the whole thing was a non event, with the racing boat just having a much smaller clearance as his idea of keeping clear.
    Cruising folk often think someone is not 'keeping clear' when they come within ten boatlengths.
    For racing, there's a proper definition of keeping clear.

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Me - Zumerzet Boat - Wareham
    Posts
    12,274

    Default Re: colregs question

    Quote Originally Posted by GHA View Post
    The link downloaded a pdf but it wouldn't open (on two androids).
    MontyMariner.co.uk
    Facilitated by AWESEM WP Agency

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Essex
    Posts
    22,861

    Default Re: colregs question

    Quote Originally Posted by lw395 View Post
    Cruising folk often think someone is not 'keeping clear' when they come within ten boatlengths.
    For racing, there's a proper definition of keeping clear.
    We weren't there.
    Far away is near at hand in images of elsewhere

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Boat Orwell - Me Norwich
    Posts
    8,223

    Default Re: colregs question

    Quote Originally Posted by lw395 View Post
    For racing, there's a proper definition of keeping clear.
    Which is irrelevant to the Colregs, and hence to a racing boat's responsibilities in relation to non-racing craft.

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Hopefully somewhere warm
    Posts
    9,622

    Default Re: colregs question

    Quote Originally Posted by LadyInBed View Post
    The link downloaded a pdf but it wouldn't open (on two androids).
    Odd, fine on a win10 laptop but same as you on an android tablet. Copied it into dropbox on the laptop and it opens ok on the tablet. Well worth a download, masses in there

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    10,490

    Default Re: colregs question

    Firstly. If the events were as described, then 100% the racer is in the wrong. However... anyone who has ever been in a protest room will tell you that is always amazing how two people's view on the same incident can be dramatically different. It's more than possible that the other chap's description of this event would be very different. Doesn't mean he's right, but you shouldn't assume that everyone is seeing the situation the same as you.

    I have my suspicion about what caused the incident, based on a couple of things the OP has said, but mostly "No, he came up alongside to starboard and was closing me from there."

    So I rather suspect that the racer figured he had the speed just to blast through your wind shadow. But actually when he got into your wind shadow, it slowed him quite a bit, so he goes from passing you and clearing your bow, to now still pointing higher but going slower so aiming at you. But of course his frame of reference is on his boat, so if he's missed the fact that he's slowed down then since he hasn't altered course it may well look to him like you're sliding down on him, and not holding your course as you are bound to do by colregs.

    Of course, alternatively he may just have been a prat.
    You never know, I might be right!

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Fareham
    Posts
    6,658

    Default Re: colregs question

    If you had been racing too then the rules would have been different. This suggests to me that he either assumed that you were racing or he didn't know the difference between racing rules and Colregs.
    ۞

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