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  1. #31
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Southampton
    Posts
    35,609

    Default Re: colregs question

    Quote Originally Posted by LONG_KEELER View Post
    Unfortunately clubs that run the races are not really interested.
    A few years ago I had an old cruising catamaran approach me from almost dead astern with the classic shout of "Get out of my way! I'm racing!"

    I was able to track down the club running the race, whose secretary apologised and said he'd have words with the member in question.

    In my experience the serious racing crews understand the rules and are no problem, it's the stressed-out occasional club racers who think the Annual Mud Creek Sailing Club Plate gives them right of way over all other traffic.

    Pete

  2. #32
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    38,249

    Default Re: colregs question

    Quote Originally Posted by flaming View Post
    Firstly. If the events were as described, then 100% the racer is in the wrong. However... anyone who has ever been in a protest room will tell you that is always amazing how two people's view on the same incident can be dramatically different. It's more than possible that the other chap's description of this event would be very different. Doesn't mean he's right, but you shouldn't assume that everyone is seeing the situation the same as you. ......
    Very succinctly put.

    So, while it's wonderful for the OP to know that he was right as he understood the situation, it's more useful to think about avoiding conflict in future.

  3. #33
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    38,249

    Default Re: colregs question

    (Definitions of keeping clear)

    Quote Originally Posted by LittleSister View Post
    Which is irrelevant to the Colregs, and hence to a racing boat's responsibilities in relation to non-racing craft.
    Actually it's fundamental to many colregs issues, many people have irrational and incompatible ideas of what 'keeping clear' means.

  4. #34
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    South Oxfordshire, Gosport and Wellington New Zealand.
    Posts
    8,224

    Default Re: colregs question

    Just an anecdote, nothing to do with the OP, about 10 years ago when starting a crossing of Lyme Bay from Brixham I had just caught a few Mackerel for dinner and was putting the fishing gear away when a yacht appeared to be on a collision course with us. First spotted about four miles, by the time I had analysed the potential danger, at two miles. We were sailing at 5 kts. ish. close hauled.

    The yacht coming towards us was a large Ovni, full sail, going faster. I estimate 6.5 kts. French flag, no one in the cockpit as far as I could see. I moved to avoid the Ovni, called and hailed as it passed from 20 metres. No response.

    We had no AIS in those days, but as I did not hear of a French yacht crashing into Brixhams Harbour's breakwater I assume the Skipper woke up and got the autopilot off in time.

    More worrying to me than the OP's report.................................

  5. #35
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Boat Orwell - Me Norwich
    Posts
    8,241

    Default Re: colregs question

    Quote Originally Posted by lw395 View Post
    For racing, there's a proper definition of keeping clear.
    Quote Originally Posted by LittleSister View Post
    Which is irrelevant to the Colregs, and hence to a racing boat's responsibilities in relation to non-racing craft.
    Quote Originally Posted by lw395 View Post
    (Definitions of keeping clear)

    Actually it's fundamental to many colregs issues, many people have irrational and incompatible ideas of what 'keeping clear' means.
    I continue to maintain that the racing definition of keeping clear is irrelevant to the Colregs, and hence also to a racing boat's responsibilities re non-racing craft.

    I agree people have all manner of different interpretations (including those in the racing rules).

    The Colleges definition of keeping clear is 'keep well clear'. Various other parts of the Colregs require this to be interpreted in the most risk-averse way possible, and considering all the factors which might increase risk or limit effectiveness of any potential avoidance measures.

  6. #36
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Me - Zumerzet Boat - Wareham
    Posts
    12,291

    Default Re: colregs question

    Quote Originally Posted by GHA View Post
    Odd, fine on a win10 laptop but same as you on an android tablet. Copied it into dropbox on the laptop and it opens ok on the tablet. Well worth a download, masses in there
    Strange, OK on Win 7 pc.
    MontyMariner.co.uk
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  7. #37
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    38,249

    Default Re: colregs question

    Quote Originally Posted by LittleSister View Post
    I continue to maintain that the racing definition of keeping clear is irrelevant to the Colregs, and hence also to a racing boat's responsibilities re non-racing craft.

    I agree people have all manner of different interpretations (including those in the racing rules).

    The Colleges definition of keeping clear is 'keep well clear'. Various other parts of the Colregs require this to be interpreted in the most risk-averse way possible, and considering all the factors which might increase risk or limit effectiveness of any potential avoidance measures.
    And what does 'well clear' mean? How many metres is that?
    Is well clear the same distance when you're in a narrow channel as when you're 10 miles offshore?

    I was not proposing that the RRS definition of keeping clear would be appropriate, merely pointing out that the RRS have a clear mechanism for deciding what is meant by 'keeping clear'.

    It's always possbile to think greater clearance is needed than the other guy thinks is plenty.
    As the OP's username labels him as less experienced, it's possible he is wanting other people to give him a great deal of space because he likes to give others that kind of space. Personally, if I deduce somebody is not very experienced, I tend to keep well away, it makes for a quiet life. If someone is helming their boat very skilfully, they're less likely to panic when you duck their transom, compared to the average.

  8. #38
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    East Coast
    Posts
    1,729

    Default Re: colregs question

    As we know, different boats make different amounts of leeway. It can make it difficult for overtaking yachts. Particularly in a puff.

    My first boat was a bilge keel Leisure 20 with 2' 6" draft. When the entire fleet turns to windward on a sunny afternoon I remember overtaking lots of boats to leeward sideways . It probably needed a special colregs rule of it's own.

    As an aside. I find power boats are a lot better than us lot under sail. They generally make course changes early and overtake with wide margins where possible .
    Last edited by LONG_KEELER; 09-09-19 at 16:36.
    It is never too late to have a happy childhood. Buy a boat.

  9. #39
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Location
    Scarborough
    Posts
    633

    Default Re: colregs question

    Quote Originally Posted by LittleSister View Post
    I continue to maintain that the racing definition of keeping clear is irrelevant to the Colregs, and hence also to a racing boat's responsibilities re non-racing craft.

    I agree people have all manner of different interpretations (including those in the racing rules).

    The Colleges definition of keeping clear is 'keep well clear'. Various other parts of the Colregs require this to be interpreted in the most risk-averse way possible, and considering all the factors which might increase risk or limit effectiveness of any potential avoidance measures.
    Seconded, the Colregs apply to all vessels, and 99% of us can not, and should not be expected to know, nor care, what some random comittee of hyped-up hooray Henries have invented over a tray of stiff pinkies in the Yacht Club.

  10. #40
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Atlantic
    Posts
    21,337

    Default Re: colregs question

    Quote Originally Posted by lw395 View Post
    . If someone is helming their boat very skilfully, they're less likely to panic when you duck their transom, compared to the average.
    Which actually is very poor seamanship and really just showing off.

    Hot shot racing helms get very good at judging distances. Fine on the racecourse. But absolutely guessing how skilled someone is at driving their boat is a tad bonkers. I'm sure when Lewis Hamilton drives home he remains a normal driver on public roads.

    I did when I was a hotshot racing helm and taking the yacht back to Pompey. Mostly behind the others.......

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