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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Belgium
    Posts
    4,865

    Default Converting Bilge section into black water tank

    sequel on my thread about black water disposal,
    Conclusion is that our black tank is too small,

    Approx. 7y ago we have replaced the original SS black tank with a new custom made Plastic tank.
    The space where that tank sits, the bilge under the utility room, is accessible and would be possible to convert in a closed tank.
    With plywood panels, glassmat and epoxy
    I could increase the capacity of our tank with at least / roughly 25% (>300l to >400l)

    Some pictures of the tank replacement / available space in post nr 556 and 592:
    http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread...+angel+rebuild

    Question is ofcause if the compartment can be made tight enough close to avoid leaks, and odeurs,
    Or even liquids penetrating in the tank / boat walls.

    Is plywood and epoxy good enough,
    The main adjacent frame is fiberglass, with foam inside
    The main adjacent bulckhead wall is plywood.

    Advice ?


    Its about time I can post some additions in my old rebuild thread ;-)

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Summer Walton, Winter Iberia
    Posts
    10,095

    Default Re: Converting Bilge section into black water tank

    Quote Originally Posted by BartW View Post
    sequel on my thread about black water disposal,
    Conclusion is that our black tank is too small,

    Approx. 7y ago we have replaced the original SS black tank with a new custom made Plastic tank.
    The space where that tank sits, the bilge under the utility room, is accessible and would be possible to convert in a closed tank.
    With plywood panels, glassmat and epoxy
    I could increase the capacity of our tank with at least / roughly 25% (>300l to >400l)

    Some pictures of the tank replacement / available space in post nr 556 and 592:
    http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread...+angel+rebuild

    Question is ofcause if the compartment can be made tight enough close to avoid leaks, and odeurs,
    Or even liquids penetrating in the tank / boat walls.

    Is plywood and epoxy good enough,
    The main adjacent frame is fiberglass, with foam inside
    The main adjacent bulckhead wall is plywood.

    Advice ?


    Its about time I can post some additions in my old rebuild thread ;-)
    By default, many peoples already is!
    🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿Neither a Remainer or a Leaver be. Hoping for the best but planning for the worst✔️

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Volos-Athens
    Posts
    4,811

    Default Re: Converting Bilge section into black water tank

    NO don't do it Bart, you'll regret it!

    I bought a proper nice blue rotomoulded (iirc) tank with its own proper fittings, had it nicely rest in the bilge sitting on the frames under the one bed in the port cabin.
    There was an annoying hint of smell (and often a not so minor stink) and only this summer managed to sort out odour leaks completely.
    Culprit: ALL THE BLEEDING connections even the inspection lid ffs!

    Starting with mat epoxy and plywood I can see things not going as planned and tiny leaks ruining your hols
    With crappy el.jabsco style toilets and 6-7 onboard I can make two days on anchor before moving to the next anchorage giving me space to empty the tank in the open sea. Tank is 108lt only.

    V

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    ation, Loc: ation, Loc: ation.
    Posts
    16,332

    Default Re: Converting Bilge section into black water tank

    Can you get flexible tanks big enough to do the job?

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Volos-Athens
    Posts
    4,811

    Default Re: Converting Bilge section into black water tank

    Quote Originally Posted by petem View Post
    Can you get flexible tanks big enough to do the job?
    not sure, but then you'd need a big bugger hole (around 2inch!) at the bottom to empty the thing, that, I'd not like at all!
    prefer a top outlet with a tube going down the tank.
    Further, how would the sucking empty from the dock work in this case, I doubt it...

    V.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Belgium
    Posts
    4,865

    Default Re: Converting Bilge section into black water tank

    Quote Originally Posted by vas View Post
    NO don't do it Bart, you'll regret it!
    Hi Vas, you know I take your advice very serious on this,
    a slightly bigger custom made tank, like the one we have , probably is a better solution
    lets see what other opinions come up

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Belgium
    Posts
    4,865

    Default Re: Converting Bilge section into black water tank

    Quote Originally Posted by petem View Post
    Can you get flexible tanks big enough to do the job?
    Pete, you know we have experience with bladder tanks in the bilges for fuel,
    I'm sure they are capable of holding toilet water, (I briefly considered them)
    but its a bit of faffing, making it filling up the bilge completely (the bladder is fairly stiff)
    and emptying it completely,
    OK for occasional use as we do for fuel,
    but not ok for daily use as a toilet tank
    and then you also have issues with fitting the level and full sensors,
    and multiple in and outlets...
    no go

  8. #8
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Posts
    15,479

    Default Re: Converting Bilge section into black water tank

    Quote Originally Posted by BartW View Post
    Hi Vas, you know I take your advice very serious on this,
    a slightly bigger custom made tank, like the one we have , probably is a better solution
    lets see what other opinions come up
    Bart, to increase the capacity by only 100l is not worth it, imho,

    I recall you saying that only allowed 3 days use. Surely you’d be better looking at way soon of at least doubling the tank size. And I certainly wouldn’t want to build such a tank myself, far better to get a proper pre made tank.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Volos-Athens
    Posts
    4,811

    Default Re: Converting Bilge section into black water tank

    Quote Originally Posted by longjohnsilver View Post
    Bart, to increase the capacity by only 100l is not worth it, imho,

    I recall you saying that only allowed 3 days use. Surely you’d be better looking at way soon of at least doubling the tank size. And I certainly wouldn’t want to build such a tank myself, far better to get a proper pre made tank.
    true LJS, but what needs to be demolished to get a nice new big tank in the bilges of BA???

    Bart, I don't know recall the exact setup with all the toilets on BA, but would it make sense to use the existing tank for say 2 or 3 of them, and fit a new similar sized one for the other 2 or 3 or whatever?
    Extra positive point that if something happens to tank or pump 1 you ask ppl to use the other toilets sending to tank2 until you fix it. Could also have diverter valves as well but probably a bit complicated...

    V

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Belgium
    Posts
    4,865

    Default Re: Converting Bilge section into black water tank

    its nearly impossible to find another decent space for a extra tank in the bilges,
    tubes and hoses everywhere,
    and the available space is needed for servicing many under the cabin floor junctions, etc..

    keep in mind in that section of the bilge, right above the keel,
    we have along the length of the boat, ao
    50mm tube for collecting all the grey water, tank is in the engine room
    50mm tube for black water,
    quite a few 1" metal tubes coming from all bilge compartments,
    and going to the bilge pump manifold in the utility room,

    I did some further investigation:
    the orriginal SS tank was 0.7 x 0.45 x 1.3m = 400l (outside volume)
    the current tank is 0.7 x 0.3 x 1.7m = 350l

    this tank
    -sits on a 35mm wooden support that I could take out
    -has a 35mm U/R space / floor above it,
    I could make a new tank with a strong topplate that could serve as a U/R floor
    -I can stretch out some more length,

    so I could get in roughly 0.7 x 0.37 x 2m = 518l
    I think that would be a big improvement.

    I found the adress from Detlev, who made the current tank in spring 2013.
    www.dlkunststofftechnik.de

    one concern is that such a big tank can't get in that compartment in one piece,
    so must be from 2 separate pieces, with a simple and leak free junction, ..
    Have to talk and meet with Detlev about this..

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