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  1. #31
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Second Coast, Ross-shire, overlooking Gruinard Bay.
    Posts
    7,380

    Default Re: Lack of tension in tack of mainsail

    Great thread, thank you one and all for many ideas to improve my mainsail (which is hoisting a bit baggy near the bottom) and I have to work very hard to get the headboard up to the "black band".

    Four questions, if you please:-
    1 Would replacing with a wire halyard*, with plaited tail reduce any stretch in my lovely thick, (easy to handle) full length rope halyard?
    2. If so, does the wire unduly wear the sheeve?
    3. What lube to use? (I've bee using a silicone spray when the mast is down) but friction within the slot may be my current enemy)
    4. How to get the lube into the whole length of the slot with the mast up?

    I'm sure the answer to the last one could be arrived at by a do-do with a cold - but I'd be grateful for advice from those who have done it!

    My mainsail has had five years use, hardly any this last year and was setting well until last year.
    TIA

    * I have a little used wire/rope tail which I could swap back if it would solve the problem
    Kay Sarah Sarah
    57°51.42' N 5°29.44' W

  2. #32
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Southminster, essex
    Posts
    9,436

    Default Re: Lack of tension in tack of mainsail

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Wilson View Post
    Great thread, thank you one and all for many ideas to improve my mainsail (which is hoisting a bit baggy near the bottom) and I have to work very hard to get the headboard up to the "black band".

    Four questions, if you please:-
    1 Would replacing with a wire halyard*, with plaited tail reduce any stretch in my lovely thick, (easy to handle) full length rope halyard?
    2. If so, does the wire unduly wear the sheeve?
    3. What lube to use? (I've bee using a silicone spray when the mast is down) but friction within the slot may be my current enemy)
    4. How to get the lube into the whole length of the slot with the mast up?
    I do not see how changing the halyard type will make any difference unless you are saying that the baggyness is happening whilst sailing because the halyard is stretching. When I changed to laminate sails I could see large creases appear in the sail as the halyard stretched & shrank. This was solved by changing to dynema.

    As for lube in the mast track, I see no point, other than making it easier to pull the sail up. All you have to do is head up to wind & let the sail flog for a minute or two with the vang & mainsheet eased, ( just tacking is usually enough) & the spring in the sail luff should equalise the sail after a while. That assumes that the reef lines allow it to do so, of course.

    From the pictures, I still suspect that the head could go up a bit ( even though I cannot see it) & the tack can come down a bit.
    Please drop the sail & show us how it is attached, so we can establish how much hoist is wasted in the attachment.
    Last edited by Daydream believer; 19-09-19 at 07:58.
    It is all down to the fact that my wife does not understand me !!

  3. #33
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Second Coast, Ross-shire, overlooking Gruinard Bay.
    Posts
    7,380

    Default Re: Lack of tension in tack of mainsail

    Daydream Believer.
    I think you have confused me with the OP.

    But thanks for the remark re halyard type.

    Robert
    Kay Sarah Sarah
    57°51.42' N 5°29.44' W

  4. #34
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Plymouth
    Posts
    8,603

    Default Re: Lack of tension in tack of mainsail

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Wilson View Post
    Great thread, thank you one and all for many ideas to improve my mainsail (which is hoisting a bit baggy near the bottom) and I have to work very hard to get the headboard up to the "black band".

    Four questions, if you please:-
    1 Would replacing with a wire halyard*, with plaited tail reduce any stretch in my lovely thick, (easy to handle) full length rope halyard?
    2. If so, does the wire unduly wear the sheeve?
    3. What lube to use? (I've bee using a silicone spray when the mast is down) but friction within the slot may be my current enemy)
    4. How to get the lube into the whole length of the slot with the mast up?

    I'm sure the answer to the last one could be arrived at by a do-do with a cold - but I'd be grateful for advice from those who have done it!

    My mainsail has had five years use, hardly any this last year and was setting well until last year.
    TIA

    * I have a little used wire/rope tail which I could swap back if it would solve the problem

    1) It could well help. Wire and rope sheaves are different, it is possible the new fat rope is binding in the original sheave and contributing to the problem. You will see that a wire sheave has a pronounced Vee shape rather than a round.
    2) No they are designed for it.
    3) I use silicone now and again seems ok.
    4) I spray it onto the sail slugs and run them up and down a couple of times. It has been said that you can spray a bit of foam or rag and lead it up and down the slot on a halyard but I have never tried it.

  5. #35
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Southminster, essex
    Posts
    9,436

    Default Re: Lack of tension in tack of mainsail

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Wilson View Post
    Daydream Believer.
    I think you have confused me with the OP.
    Apologies- missed that you had nipped into the thread
    It is all down to the fact that my wife does not understand me !!

  6. #36
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    10,493

    Default Re: Lack of tension in tack of mainsail

    Quote Originally Posted by Daydream believer View Post
    Take the shackle off the head of the sail. Double the halyard over & push a loop through the eye in the head of the sail.
    Take the free end of the halyard & pass it through the loop so that the loop is trapped in the eye. tie an overhand knot in the end of the halyard as a stopper .
    That will get you another inch or so height at the head of the sail when hoisting.
    then, as others have said, fasten the tack tight down to the gooseneck.
    Total, with luck, will give you about 3 inches of extra stretch.
    I don't buy the theory that the halyard is not going high enough. If that was so I think the sagginess in the luff would be more even, not concentrated at the bottom as we see.

    The more I think about this, the more I am sure that this is simply an issue of too much friction in the sliders. Especially if the winding of tension that the OP talked about wasn't done with the boat head to wind, but with the sail full of wind.
    You never know, I might be right!

  7. #37
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Southminster, essex
    Posts
    9,436

    Default Re: Lack of tension in tack of mainsail

    Quote Originally Posted by flaming View Post
    I don't buy the theory that the halyard is not going high enough. If that was so I think the sagginess in the luff would be more even, not concentrated at the bottom as we see.

    The more I think about this, the more I am sure that this is simply an issue of too much friction in the sliders. Especially if the winding of tension that the OP talked about wasn't done with the boat head to wind, but with the sail full of wind.
    If you get the sail further up the mast there will be more room at the bottom to tension at the tack. Friction in the sliders is not a problem once the sail has flogged free into the wind for a couple of minutes to allow the tension in the sail to even out. I do not believe that every slider has jammed altogether at one point.
    It is all down to the fact that my wife does not understand me !!

  8. #38
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Second Coast, Ross-shire, overlooking Gruinard Bay.
    Posts
    7,380

    Default Re: Lack of tension in tack of mainsail

    Quote Originally Posted by doug748 View Post
    1) It could well help. Wire and rope sheaves are different, it is possible the new fat rope is binding in the original sheave and contributing to the problem. You will see that a wire sheave has a pronounced Vee shape rather than a round.
    2) No they are designed for it.
    3) I use silicone now and again seems ok.
    4) I spray it onto the sail slugs and run them up and down a couple of times. It has been said that you can spray a bit of foam or rag and lead it up and down the slot on a halyard but I have never tried it.
    IIRC the sheave is round - but the boat came with a part wire/part halyard.
    The guy who sold it to me was certainly no bodger or short-cut taker.
    Interesting point. I'd rather keep my easy-to-handle greater diam. rope, for that reason
    I have plenty of silicone, so I'll try that, again. Onto a rag then hoist it, and onto the sail slugs
    I wonder if standing idle from late May to now might be a contributing factor with grime, weather etc.?

    Thank you
    Kay Sarah Sarah
    57°51.42' N 5°29.44' W

  9. #39
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Scotland
    Posts
    2,103

    Default Re: Lack of tension in tack of mainsail

    Quote Originally Posted by flaming View Post
    I don't buy the theory that the halyard is not going high enough. If that was so I think the sagginess in the luff would be more even, not concentrated at the bottom as we see.

    The more I think about this, the more I am sure that this is simply an issue of too much friction in the sliders. Especially if the winding of tension that the OP talked about wasn't done with the boat head to wind, but with the sail full of wind.
    Friction could well be an issue preventing a full hoist- leading to a slack luff . Also possible is the leech going tight before the luff on hoisting , if the mainsheet is not quite free or there is some kicker tension which should not be present when hoisting?
    Free both, do a full hoist, head to wind and report back. (Do you have a masthead mark for checking your hoist? or one on the halyard coming through the jammer?)

  10. #40
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    249

    Default Re: Lack of tension in tack of mainsail

    Quote Originally Posted by flaming View Post
    The more I think about this, the more I am sure that this is simply an issue of too much friction in the sliders. Especially if the winding of tension that the OP talked about wasn't done with the boat head to wind, but with the sail full of wind.
    *cough* *cough*

    Yes, I shall be checking all the simple things next time I get the sails up fully.

    Had lovely sail shape today, but with one reef in.

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