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  1. #21
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    UK East Coast
    Posts
    36,649

    Default Re: AGM vs deep cycle

    A couple of people have suggested Tayna, but they don't sell Hankook batteries. Is the Hankook XL31 more or less exclusive to Battery Megastore?

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Bournemouth
    Posts
    1,340

    Default Re: AGM vs deep cycle

    Doesn't look to me like the question has been fully answered.. The post is titled "AGM vs Deep Cycle" which is a mix of battery type vs battery use case..

    There are pros and cons to AGM vs Lead Acid/Sealed Lead Acid and depending on what its being used for will determine if deep cycle is needed or not..

    In simple terms the only time deep cycle is NOT needed is for the engine starter batteries, pretty much all other uses on a boat need a deep cycle battery..

    The choice of AGM vs SLA/LA is more complicated.. Disadvantages to AGM are the up front cost but in general the advantages are no gassing, no leaking, mounting in any orientation, faster charging and higher number discharge cycles..
    Disadvantages of LA are things like when the boat heels it can expose the lead plates as the acid sloshes around, potential of leaking acid, gassing but the advantage is they are generally cheaper..

    Largely it comes down to your application, installation location, usage and budget..

    For us we felt AGM deep cycle for the house bank was a no brainier..
    Last edited by wipe_out; 19-09-19 at 14:58.

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Caribbean
    Posts
    2,419

    Default Re: AGM vs deep cycle

    Quote Originally Posted by wipe_out View Post
    Doesn't look to me like the question has been fully answered.. The post is titled "AGM vs Deep Cycle" which is a mix of battery type vs battery use case..

    There are pros and cons to AGM vs Lead Acid/Sealed Lead Acid and depending on what its being used for will determine if deep cycle is needed or not..

    In simple terms the only time deep cycle is NOT needed is for the engine starter batteries, pretty much all other uses on a boat need a deep cycle battery..

    The choice of AGM vs SLA/LA is more complicated.. Disadvantages to AGM are the up front cost but in general the advantages are no gassing, no leaking, mounting in any orientation, faster charging and higher number discharge cycles..
    Disadvantages of LA are things like when the boat heels it can expose the lead plates as the acid sloshes around, potential of leaking acid, gassing but the advantage is they are generally cheaper..

    Largely it comes down to your application, installation location, usage and budget..

    For us we felt AGM deep cycle for the house bank was a no brainier..
    I don't get the exaggerated claims for AGM. Taking two reputable battery manufacturers I looked at the lifecycle charts published for the Trojan T105s and the Lifeline deep cycle AGM. They are easy to find on the internet. So at a 20% DOD the lifelines predict 2750 cycles. The Trojans say 4000 cycles. At 30% DOD lifeline say 1750 cycles, Trojan say 2750. I dont like the idea of paying more for AGMs just so I can mount them on their side. I have an acid proof battery box with a ventilation system. The lead antinomy batteries have a higher self discharge rate than AGM but who doesnt have solar these days to deal with that. I see no need for AGMs at inflated prices with less life expectancy. Other manufacturers batteries might predict better life expectancy but Lifeline are well respected but in a simple comparison they wont last as long as T105s assuming the water is topped up. Am I missing something? Also cost. A Lifeline 210 amp hr AGM costs £750 from Tanja. Two T105s giving more amp hrs cost £300. Anybody want to do a comparison where AGM come out on top for battery life and cost?

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    5,754

    Default Re: AGM vs deep cycle

    Quote Originally Posted by geem View Post
    I don't get the exaggerated claims for AGM. Taking two reputable battery manufacturers I looked at the lifecycle charts published for the Trojan T105s and the Lifeline deep cycle AGM. They are easy to find on the internet. So at a 20% DOD the lifelines predict 2750 cycles. The Trojans say 4000 cycles. At 30% DOD lifeline say 1750 cycles, Trojan say 2750. I dont like the idea of paying more for AGMs just so I can mount them on their side. I have an acid proof battery box with a ventilation system. The lead antinomy batteries have a higher self discharge rate than AGM but who doesnt have solar these days to deal with that. I see no need for AGMs at inflated prices with less life expectancy. Other manufacturers batteries might predict better life expectancy but Lifeline are well respected but in a simple comparison they wont last as long as T105s assuming the water is topped up. Am I missing something? Also cost. A Lifeline 210 amp hr AGM costs £750 from Tanja. Two T105s giving more amp hrs cost £300. Anybody want to do a comparison where AGM come out on top for battery life and cost?
    You can lead a horse to water......

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Bournemouth
    Posts
    1,340

    Default Re: AGM vs deep cycle

    Quote Originally Posted by geem View Post
    I don't get the exaggerated claims for AGM. Taking two reputable battery manufacturers I looked at the lifecycle charts published for the Trojan T105s and the Lifeline deep cycle AGM. They are easy to find on the internet. So at a 20% DOD the lifelines predict 2750 cycles. The Trojans say 4000 cycles. At 30% DOD lifeline say 1750 cycles, Trojan say 2750. I dont like the idea of paying more for AGMs just so I can mount them on their side. I have an acid proof battery box with a ventilation system. The lead antinomy batteries have a higher self discharge rate than AGM but who doesnt have solar these days to deal with that. I see no need for AGMs at inflated prices with less life expectancy. Other manufacturers batteries might predict better life expectancy but Lifeline are well respected but in a simple comparison they wont last as long as T105s assuming the water is topped up. Am I missing something? Also cost. A Lifeline 210 amp hr AGM costs £750 from Tanja. Two T105s giving more amp hrs cost £300. Anybody want to do a comparison where AGM come out on top for battery life and cost?
    As I said it comes down to your application, installation location, usage and budget.. Our batteries are all inside the saloon of a sailboat under the seat.. Battery boxes would have reduced the number of batteries (capacity) we could have or we would loose more storage space which is always at a premium.. The idea of the gas inside wasn't appealing and exposing the plates while heeling isn't great.. Then zero maintenance was appealing too, checking and topping up water would just add another regular job that isn't necessary..

    I agree that lifeline batteries are reputable but they are also insanely expensive.. We used the 2 x Leoch LAGM-130 (130Ah) for our house bank which claim 3000 cycles at 25% DOD And are currently £170 delivered from Alpha Batteries.. Time will tell how they work out in the long run..

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Caribbean
    Posts
    2,419

    Default Re: AGM vs deep cycle

    Quote Originally Posted by wipe_out View Post
    As I said it comes down to your application, installation location, usage and budget.. Our batteries are all inside the saloon of a sailboat under the seat.. Battery boxes would have reduced the number of batteries (capacity) we could have or we would loose more storage space which is always at a premium.. The idea of the gas inside wasn't appealing and exposing the plates while heeling isn't great.. Then zero maintenance was appealing too, checking and topping up water would just add another regular job that isn't necessary..

    I agree that lifeline batteries are reputable but they are also insanely expensive.. We used the 2 x Leoch LAGM-130 (130Ah) for our house bank which claim 3000 cycles at 25% DOD And are currently £170 delivered from Alpha Batteries.. Time will tell how they work out in the long run..
    Thats a very small house bank. If you are running a fridge then I would expect your DOD to be a little more. What do you mean about battery box? Why do you think you need several? My single battery box is also under the saloon seats it holds four 250 amp hr house batteries and two starter batteries. Its a single box with sealable 10mm perspex lids. It also has a mechanical ventilation system. In my experience the battery water is easy to top up. They need it every few months not every week. I check the batteries monthly. The water level in the batteries more than compensates for angle of dangle

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Caribbean
    Posts
    2,419

    Default Re: AGM vs deep cycle

    Q
    Quote Originally Posted by wipe_out View Post
    As I said it comes down to your application, installation location, usage and budget.. Our batteries are all inside the saloon of a sailboat under the seat.. Battery boxes would have reduced the number of batteries (capacity) we could have or we would loose more storage space which is always at a premium.. The idea of the gas inside wasn't appealing and exposing the plates while heeling isn't great.. Then zero maintenance was appealing too, checking and topping up water would just add another regular job that isn't necessary..

    I agree that lifeline batteries are reputable but they are also insanely expensive.. We used the 2 x Leoch LAGM-130 (130Ah) for our house bank which claim 3000 cycles at 25% DOD And are currently £170 delivered from Alpha Batteries.. Time will tell how they work out in the long run..
    A quick look at your batteries on the internet and it would appear they are in fact only 116 am hr at the c20 rating. They also only give 600 cycles at 50% DOD. For the similar money you could have two Trojans and get far more cycles and similar Ahs

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Bristol
    Posts
    2,134

    Default Re: AGM vs deep cycle

    Quote Originally Posted by Minchsailor View Post
    I changed to Trojan T145s - which are true deep cycle batteries, and not a 'marine' hybrid - a couple of years ago and not regretted it a minute. Rock solid amps all the time. Worth every penny of the (not inconsiderable) cost.
    Same here but got T105s.

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    SW Scotland
    Posts
    19,658

    Default Re: AGM vs deep cycle

    Someone at the Boat Show was selling 68Ah Li-ion batteries from a reputable maker (can't remember who) for a mere £600. Since that's the same effective capacity as 120Ah of lead, at around 1/5 of the weight and good - they say - for 3,000 cycles, I'm almost tempted. Not quite, bit when something similar is £300, I'm buying.
    "Seamen are always wanting to do things the proper way; and I like to do them my way."

  10. #30
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Loch Snizort, Isle of Skye
    Posts
    4,932

    Default Re: AGM vs deep cycle

    I looked into this this and found that if you just go by the published numbers, deep cycle FLA are the cheapest option buy number of cycles. Lithium is a wee bit behind, with cheap 'leisure' batteries by far the most expensive. Being rated for only 250 cycles, or less, means they just can't compete, even if they are a quarter of the initial cost.

    What is much harder to factor in is when you diverge from the expected usage pattern. Some people advocate buying a huge bank of cheap batteries and never taking it below 80% SOC. It can be hard to find manufacturers' numbers to suit this usage, especially with cheap batteries.

    Lithium is becoming very tempting now, with some unique advantages (efficiency of charging in particular) but you need a BMS and there is always the risk that a faulty charging system could kill the whole bank. This doesn't matter so much with lead acid, but a viable lithium bank will cost thousands and need to last for many years to make economic sense.
    Moody 39- Deb 33- Wayfarer- Wanderer

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