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  1. #31
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Sydney, Australia.
    Posts
    5,465

    Default Re: Force 10 forecast - lets go sailing!

    Quote Originally Posted by LittleSister View Post
    I wasn't convinced it was a Force 10 (though more than enough for me).

    Before he set off he said, IIRC, that the island's met station was showing 45kts gusting 55kts. That's F9, not 10, and the station appeared to be at the top of a hill, where wind speed would be higher due to (a) elevation and (b) accelerating over the hill.

    When he was running he said IIRC that the boat was doing 6 1/2 kts, which meant the wind was 40 to 42 kts (presumably added boat speed to apparent wind speed). That would be F8 - F9, even assuming it was steady rather than a gust.

    I would not expect to be able to stand up without holding on in a 35' boat in a F10, let alone operate a camera. I certainly wouldn't expect to be able to clearly record speech into a microphone.

    For me the most alarming aspect of it was heading towards a lee shore with only limited openings (and those between low lying islets that would be difficult to see if the viz closed in). It wouldn't take much in the way of mechanical problems, or injury following a fall or whatever, to make that lethal.
    +1

    There is nothing to brag about in intentionally sailing in such conditions. On the assumption if something goes wrong and you trigger, or it is done automatically, an emergency alarm.

    Someone, often volunteers, then have to come out and sort you out - except they have to venture out to windward (whilst you only planned to sail downwind).

    The heroes are the ones who are expected to go out and sort out the mess.


    Having sounded righteous - some of us do get caught out and if we don't test the limits of our skill, extend our knowledge and test the seaworthiness of our yachts then we might not 'cut the mustard'. There is a balance.

    I am critical of yacht racing where races are cancelled or postponed when forecasts are unfavourable and crew are never subjected to adverse weather - until its too late and they have to learn, possibly at the extreme end of the scale. Taming a main, removing a headsail and hanking on a Storm jib, at 2am, when conditions dictate is slightly different to practising.

    Jonathan

  2. #32
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    East coast UK. Mostly. Sometimes the Philippines
    Posts
    9,759

    Default Re: Force 10 forecast - lets go sailing!

    I like Erik’s videos but on this occasion I agree with Little Sister and with Neeves.

    Somewhere Uffa Fox wrote that underwriters would be justified in refusing to pay on a yacht that sets off with a gale forecast. That was in the thirties but the words did come back to me as we set off into a forecast «*SW 6 to gale 8, severe gale 9 later*» We were running in a very capable big boat with a strong crew; maximum apparent wind on the anemometer was 42 and we were making 10 knots SOG at that point, running north inside the Goodwins, with a SSW wind,but for most of the time we were seeing mid twenties and 6-7 knots on the log. SOG was higher overall due to carrying the tide.
    Last edited by Kukri; 30-09-19 at 12:20.

  3. #33
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    SPAIN,Galicia
    Posts
    12,685

    Default Re: Force 10 forecast - lets go sailing!

    Years agoI recall a harbour master preventing a yacht putting to sea in the face of bad weather,the yachtsman wanted to test their heavy weather stuff.

  4. #34
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    East coast UK. Mostly. Sometimes the Philippines
    Posts
    9,759

    Default Re: Force 10 forecast - lets go sailing!

    Quote Originally Posted by Wansworth View Post
    Years agoI recall a harbour master preventing a yacht putting to sea in the face of bad weather,the yachtsman wanted to test their heavy weather stuff.
    Harbour master was right, imho.

    There is a case for trying out heavy weather stuff in sheltered water. Years ago the Des Sleightholme YM recommended this and I’ve done it. But presumably that wasn’t the case here.

  5. #35
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    5,541

    Default Re: Force 10 forecast - lets go sailing!

    In fact, this a useful tick-list of bad seamanship and how to absolutely not approach such conditions:

    1. Constant exaggeration degrades understanding

    2. Derring-do attitude best kept in the pub; the sea will be unimpressed. 15:05 and 15:44 are acts of utter stupidity.

    3. No hatches going into possible breaking seas is just silly.

    4. Lack of harness, such as when unfurling jib (14:45) is plain stupid. If it accidentally flew out, the boat would have been on its side and a riding turn would render retrieval almost impossible.

    5. When close to lee shores an exit strategy is key. And for that one needs the right sails and minimized windage. A pregnant elephant clew section of a furling genny will absolutely not cut the mustard. The windage of the furled headsail will not help and neither will the windage from his badly lashed down main, unused windvane, and all that clobber on the stern rail. In fact, he may never have got off a lee shore as prop cavitation would have surely slowed progress to a crawl or worse.

    I admit to fast-forwarding large tracts of vid, so would hazard a guess there are many more mistakes.
    Last edited by dom; 30-09-19 at 12:03.

  6. #36
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    Me in Cowes, boat in Quiberon
    Posts
    410

    Default Re: Force 10 forecast - lets go sailing!

    A few years ago when my boat was kept in Mayflower Marina, whilst chatting I was told by one of the crew on a visiting Clipper training yacht that as part of the program they go looking for bad weather, out in the Western Approaches ?

  7. #37
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Sydney, Australia.
    Posts
    5,465

    Default Re: Force 10 forecast - lets go sailing!

    Quote Originally Posted by Lightwave395 View Post
    A few years ago when my boat was kept in Mayflower Marina, whilst chatting I was told by one of the crew on a visiting Clipper training yacht that as part of the program they go looking for bad weather, out in the Western Approaches ?
    I'm guessing they did not define 'bad weather' or you would have mentioned it.

    And to Dom +1 (you had much more patience than me - the whole thing seemed to be part off an ego trip - and I, like the weather, was unimpressed).

    We get it wrong but try to avoid bad weather, and limit possible exposure to bad weather to downhill, like the plague. Sailing is meant to be a pleasure not a test of character for others to marvel, or not, at.

    Similarly - people who defend their anchors by saying they anchored and weathered a named Storm - I immediately think they are bragging, lack credibility and/or very, very stupid (or combination of).

    Jonathan

  8. #38
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Location
    Wales
    Posts
    915

    Default Re: Force 10 forecast - lets go sailing!

    It's called NBJS for a reason, it's not a fair weather cocktail party as a lot of other channels seem to be, nor is it a travel brochure (yet, the channel is working on it).

    Lets not forget he's an experienced skipper on his own boat. I've not yet met a skipper who follows all the rules and or does everything by the book. They all take their own risks depending on their appetite and experience. I am sure if you had his experiences (not saying he is more experienced than anyone else) that you may make similar decisions.

    It's probably no different from Base Jumping, sure it's not meant to be a test of character, it's meant to be a pleasure but for a lot of people...it's a test of character. You might think it's risky, those who've tried it and succeeded might think otherwise.

  9. #39
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Hopefully somewhere warm
    Posts
    9,617

    Default Re: Force 10 forecast - lets go sailing!

    Quote Originally Posted by Luminescent View Post
    Lets not forget he's an experienced skipper on his own boat.
    And by the looks of it planning a solo trip to Greenland, so getting some more heavy weather experience isn't a bad thing.

  10. #40
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    On the Celtic Fringe
    Posts
    14,324

    Default Re: Force 10 forecast - lets go sailing!

    Quote Originally Posted by GHA View Post
    Guy's proper nuts!

    Anyone here even consider doing that?
    I'd disagree with you. He has undertaken a number of mid winter passages from Norway to Shetland! I'd consider those passages had far more risk.

    He knew what he was doing and had carefully planned the trip.

    Yes, I would consider going out in something like that.
    Cynical Scottish very nearly retired engineer who sails a Gib'Sea 96.

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