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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    12,484

    Default Re: UKHO want to drop small craft folio charts

    Quote Originally Posted by oldmanofthehills View Post
    Very unfortunate as all small craft should carry paper charts as unlike the big boys they will not have have duplicate navigational and electrical systems.
    You might not have but I have!

    Primary navigation - chart plotter and external GPS antenna running Navionics

    Secondary navigation - laptop (both Navionics and Admiralty available) and GPS via AIS receiver

    Both primary and secondary can get a GPS fix from either the external GPS antenna or the AIS receiver

    The secondary can also get a GPS fix from a smartphone etc.

    Third backup is a tablet with built in GPS and again both Navionics and Admiralty available

    Fourth backup is a smartphone otherwise identicial to the tablet

    Both tablet and smartphone can be recharged from external "bricks" giving up to 72 hours continuous use (and much longer if used sparingly) even if the main boat electrics fail completely

    Passage planning is done on the laptop using a large screen display (and comparing both chart sets btw)

    The Navionics charts are regularly updated, much more regularly than (in all honesty) paper charts would be

    So I really have no need whatsoever for paper charts

    And yet ... I do still carry them! However, the Admiarlty folios are costly, have to be replaced as a complete set and, if cruising any distance, you need a LOT of them! I carry the relevant Imray 'C' series charts which, other than for the Thames Estuary*, have enough detail plus harbour plans to get me into a safe haven in the extrmely unlikely event of total loss of all means of electronic navigation

    * As the Thames Estuary is home waters, I already have a complete set of older but still just about adequate folio charts which I do from time to time update with critical updates. They are probably getting past their use by date now and due for replacement with an Imray set (because the Imray folio charts can be replaced individually when superceded

    And the 'C' series charts are much better for passage planning on the odd occasions I want to go old school (usually just to keep my hand in but once in a while I want to manually check tidal calculations etc.) as they cover a much larger area than the individual folio charts

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Scotland.
    Posts
    14,427

    Default Re: UKHO want to drop small craft folio charts

    If it allows 3rd parties to produce paper charts / small chart portfolios, or even custom charts (like Ordnance survey do) using the same data, with no loss of fidelity, and at a lower cost to leisure sailors, then why not. As a tax money receiving organisation they should be looking at cost effective ways to manage this. Sellers of such charts may not be required to stock quantities of paper charts and could use a print on demand service from the admiralty. The Admiralty should also offer their portfolio digitally to UK tax payers, FOC.

    It is not important to me who supplies the charts, just that they are accurate and cost effective.

    The UK Hydrographic Office has announced that it is proposing to withdraw the supply and maintenance of ADMIRALTY Small Craft Folios.

    As an alternative to the ADMIRALTY Small Craft Folios, established suppliers in the small craft market will continue to be able to license data from the UKHO to serve those who do not wish to operate digitally.


    The intention to retire the ADMIRALTY Small Craft Folios is in response to the changing requirements of users and to increase the frequency of updates.
    "'...contradictions .... are deliberate exercises in doublethink." Orwell from 1984

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Scotland.
    Posts
    14,427

    Default Re: UKHO want to drop small craft folio charts

    Regarding cost: A full portfolio for the West Coast of Scotland, from ChartCo £1300 with a 10% discount A plotter with a full set of digital Admiralty Charts, about £350. It's a no brainer.
    "'...contradictions .... are deliberate exercises in doublethink." Orwell from 1984

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    1,503

    Default Re: UKHO want to drop small craft folio charts

    Quote Originally Posted by BlowingOldBoots View Post
    Regarding cost: A full portfolio for the West Coast of Scotland, from ChartCo £1300 with a 10% discount A plotter with a full set of digital Admiralty Charts, about £350. It's a no brainer.
    They stopped just before the top of Lewis. I had a near complete set from Lands End north and never used them. Sold them in pristine condition. Waste of time when you can have several devices with e-charts for peanuts.

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    6,981

    Default Re: UKHO want to drop small craft folio charts

    Quote Originally Posted by dgadee View Post
    They stopped just before the top of Lewis. I had a near complete set from Lands End north and never used them. Sold them in pristine condition. Waste of time when you can have several devices with e-charts for peanuts.
    Yes, and as far as I know, they don't cover any of the west side of the Outer Hebrides. I have standard Admiralty Charts, some admittedly of rare vintage, but have never bothered with the Folio ones.

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Boat (now back in) the Clyde
    Posts
    5,695

    Default Re: UKHO want to drop small craft folio charts

    Quote Originally Posted by BlowingOldBoots View Post
    Regarding cost: A full portfolio for the West Coast of Scotland, from ChartCo £1300 with a 10% discount A plotter with a full set of digital Admiralty Charts, about £350. It's a no brainer.
    I donít understand that statement. The OP was referring to Admiralty Small Craft folios, which are about £40-45 a set, and I think there are 3 sets for West Scotland and one on the East? Clearly big gaps in North and East, but the full set of these folios for Scotland is under £200.
    The big issue in these waters is that
    (A) the individual charts would be massively more expensive than these folios
    (B) Imray C series are ludicrously too small scale to be useful for Scottish coastlines, with so many indentations and rocks
    (C) with such intricate pilotage, often paper is useful to get an oversight.

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Scotland.
    Posts
    14,427

    Default Re: UKHO want to drop small craft folio charts

    Quote Originally Posted by dunedin View Post
    ....... The OP was referring to Admiralty Small Craft folios, ........
    Yes, I know that.
    "'...contradictions .... are deliberate exercises in doublethink." Orwell from 1984

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Swale/Medway
    Posts
    4,377

    Default Re: UKHO want to drop small craft folio charts

    Having started this thread, and now gone to the survey, it appears I cannot submit my answers as I'm not a member of the RiN. Or am I missing something?
    Keep up to date with 'East Coast Pilot' at www.eastcoastpilot.com

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Scotland.
    Posts
    14,427

    Default Re: UKHO want to drop small craft folio charts

    Quote Originally Posted by Cantata View Post
    Having started this thread, and now gone to the survey, it appears I cannot submit my answers as I'm not a member of the RiN. Or am I missing something?
    I am not a member, but used the link via the RYA web page, worked for me.
    "'...contradictions .... are deliberate exercises in doublethink." Orwell from 1984

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    1,503

    Default Re: UKHO want to drop small craft folio charts

    Quote Originally Posted by dunedin
    (C) with such intricate pilotage, often paper is useful to get an oversight.
    O learnt to sail with paper. Glad it's gone. OpenCPN and VMH charts are brill in comparison.

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