Page 3 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 42
  1. #21
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Southminster, essex
    Posts
    9,444

    Default Re: Chart and plotter whinge

    Quote Originally Posted by Minn View Post
    We did think about that, but at the decision point, at the north end of the Gull Stream, it was 0200 am on a moonless night, it was blowing F8, SW, forecast to veer NW and increase to 9 (which it didn't do, luckily,) visibility wasn't wonderful and I didn't fancy either the un-buoyed Edinburghs or the buoyed but narrow and steep to Fisherman's Gat, and certainly not Foulgers and the windfarm.
    I understand now. I certainly would forget Foulgers, but do not mind Fishermans.
    However, the Royal Temple YC can sometimes seem very tempting. I came back from Boulogne last week & stopped there at the weekend for a couple of days. Monday was a lot easier
    It is all down to the fact that my wife does not understand me !!

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    West Mersea
    Posts
    6,450

    Default Re: Chart and plotter whinge

    I looked out the UKHO Leisure Folios in comparison to the Imray's Leisure Folio but to Minn's point.

    The UKHO folio (5607 series) have two folios that cover the Long Sand Head. 5607-1 is at 1:250,000 scale and 5607.2 at 1:100,000. Most of the others i the folio are 1:25,000 or 1: 50,000.

    At '250' the scale of 5607-1 isn't useful for rounding the Long Sand Head. Indeed at '100' isn't really good enough other than a 'Rule of Thumb' judgement. It really needs '50'. Well I think so. If that is right I can understand why there there is no '50' for that area in either in the UKHO or Imray as it would really about the Sunk Gyratory which is really about big stuff, not us. Imray would probably expect users for that area would opt for Chart C1 (Thames Estuary) rather than one of the 'round the coast' leisure folios. Imray do include the Long Sand Head in their leisure folio 2000.2 which is at 1:120,000. Most the other Imray leisure are 1:35,000. The 2000.2 and 5607.1 and 2 are really for passage planning.

    I think it is not unreasonable not to have a 1:35,000 folio for the Long Sand Head given the value for the rest of that area but given that 'my' routes do trespass on the margins of the Sunk Gyratory there is a case to support you Minn. But BD! Annoyingly, the Long Sand Head is longer.

    E.G. at say 5 kts average north on Springs:

    via Foulgers and Black Deep = 6hrs 58 mins
    via Foulgers and Little Sunk = 6hrs 39 mins
    via Fisherman's and Black Deep = 7 hrs 17 mins
    via Fisherman's and Little Sunk = 6 hrs 51 mins
    via the Outside route via Long Sand Head = 7 hrs 38 mins

    Fisherman's isn't steep too for most of the area and is lovely and wide. The Black Deep is of course and is a super highway - lots of Container Ships at 16 to 18 knots and some over 2kt tides. There are so many choices. Predicting veering NW I think I would opt for the Little Sunk so as to diagonal across the Swin later. Actually I'd be in Ramsgit; I'm frit!

    Oh a PS. I think many of the chart 'makers' have little nautical experience. The late Colin Jarman, Cantata and Garth the ECP authors took/take peeps from Imray for a day's jolly and I know they valued the experience as well as enjoyhing it. I have had a nice exchange with one guy from the UKHO who explain he had no practical nautical experience. There is nothing wrong with that but it shows the value of feedback and they like that.
    www.crossingthethamesestuary.com

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    South, Costa Blanca, Spain
    Posts
    518

    Default Re: Chart and plotter whinge

    +1 for Open-CPN, with CM93 2012, all the world charts

    A fantastic back up
    It's nice to be important........ but more important to be nice

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Hopefully somewhere warm
    Posts
    9,653

    Default Re: Chart and plotter whinge

    Vaguely on topic, if you want some other sources & sat images to double check, opencpn and sasplanet can do that for you, can be very useful slightly further off the beaten track >>
    http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread...-other-sources

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    East coast UK. Mostly. Sometimes the Philippines
    Posts
    9,810

    Default Re: Chart and plotter whinge

    Replying to Tillergirl:

    Quote


    I think it is not unreasonable not to have a 1:35,000 folio for the Long Sand Head given the value for the rest of that area but given that 'my' routes do trespass on the margins of the Sunk Gyratory there is a case to support you Minn. But BD! Annoyingly, the Long Sand Head is longer.

    E.G. at say 5 kts average north on Springs:

    via Foulgers and Black Deep = 6hrs 58 mins
    via Foulgers and Little Sunk = 6hrs 39 mins
    via Fisherman's and Black Deep = 7 hrs 17 mins
    via Fisherman's and Little Sunk = 6 hrs 51 mins
    via the Outside route via Long Sand Head = 7 hrs 38 mins

    Fisherman's isn't steep too for most of the area and is lovely and wide. The Black Deep is of course and is a super highway - lots of Container Ships at 16 to 18 knots and some over 2kt tides. There are so many choices. Predicting veering NW I think I would opt for the Little Sunk so as to diagonal across the Swin later. Actually I'd be in Ramsgit; I'm

    Unquote

    The one thing that I won’t do in a gale is try to enter an artificial harbour! No Dover or Ramsgate and absolutely no Brighton! The decision to go outside was based on the forecast veer to NW and increase to 9, followed by a SW 4-5.

    My plan in the event of the forecast veer and increase to 9 was simply to heave to and wait for things to calm down, then resume the passage. To do this I wanted plenty of North Sea under my lee, so the outside passage was logical. We did come up inside the Goodwins so we did some buoy hopping but in that case we were under the land.

    I ought to have carried more paper charts rather than just relying on the Imray folios.

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    West Mersea
    Posts
    6,450

    Default Re: Chart and plotter whinge

    I certainly wouldn't enter Dover on that forecast. I would hope Ramsgit would have a lee! It's an interesting debate. Certainly with the NW increase, plenty of North Sea lee is very sensible. Which exposes my hope and breaking the rule of 'towards' not 'to'. By opting for the Little Sunk I would run the risk of trying to clear the Long Sand exiting from Fisherman's. And there might be an issue of big ships particularly at that place and time. Thinking of the Little Sunk lies behind an early experience back in Decca days. Fisherman's wasn't buoyed in those days but Decca was easy to find it. We then turned down the Black Deep running nicely until someone pointed out that the Decca said we had 10kts over the ground! TG don't do 10kts so she was flat out and with a lot of tide. And then before I could collect my senses we had past the Little Sunk! So round the Sunk Head and hardened up to get up wind and up tide of the NE Gunfleet and the S Cork. And that became a struggle. You could see a barge off the Naze reduced sail before disappeared in the squalls. Making the S Cork was hard and then we arrive adjacent into a minefield of lobster pots! We made it but it was probably sensible to bear way for the other end of the Cork Sands. But of course trying to make into Harwich would have not been pleasant. Mind you I recall arriving in Shotley Lock that with all the grockles dressed in bikinis and shorts looking at us rather oddly while we were still fully kitted!

    I take the point for the 'Outside' route! The duration has to be second to the conditions.
    www.crossingthethamesestuary.com

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    East coast UK. Mostly. Sometimes the Philippines
    Posts
    9,810

    Default Re: Chart and plotter whinge

    I sail “towards” like you, Roger.

    May I just say how good your book is!

    Meanwhile back on the chart card front...


  8. #28
    Join Date
    Oct 2019
    Posts
    3

    Default Re: Chart and plotter whinge

    Hello, it's Lucy from Imray here. We always like to hear your feedback so please do always talk to us direct in case of any gripes (email ilnw@imray.com).
    This sounds like a case of not having the right paper charts on board. Long Sand is included in the Kent and Sussex chart pack (2100) that you were using, but it doesn't extend as far north as Long Sand Head. If you were going up to or down from Lowestoft, chart pack 2000 (Suffolk and Essex) is what you need. Long Sand Head is it's included in that. It's also on many of our Thames/North Sea flat sheet charts. It's in our digital chart pack ID10 North Sea as tillergirl mentions (you can use that on Raymarine plotters, Meridian, or our own chart app Imray Navigator) too.

    We're fans of electronic charts as much as anyone, but would always caution to check that you have the correct paper charts on board before you set out just in case your electronics fail.

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Oct 2019
    Posts
    3

    Default Re: Chart and plotter whinge

    One more PS from us here at Imray, in agreement with tillergirl above. We always consult with sailors before and during the creation of our chart pack schemes, including those that he mentions. Our cartographers are expert when it comes to the actual 'drawing' of the charts, and we also have a very experienced sailor as an editor working in house (Jane Russell) whose nautical/navigational knowledge and input is invaluable. But, we always value what you all have to say as your experiences and knowledge make our charts the best that they can be - you're the people who are using them and so we want to get them just right for you. Do keep in touch!

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    East coast UK. Mostly. Sometimes the Philippines
    Posts
    9,810

    Default Re: Chart and plotter whinge

    Quote Originally Posted by Imray View Post
    Hello, it's Lucy from Imray here. We always like to hear your feedback so please do always talk to us direct in case of any gripes (email ilnw@imray.com).
    This sounds like a case of not having the right paper charts on board. Long Sand is included in the Kent and Sussex chart pack (2100) that you were using, but it doesn't extend as far north as Long Sand Head. If you were going up to or down from Lowestoft, chart pack 2000 (Suffolk and Essex) is what you need. Long Sand Head is it's included in that. It's also on many of our Thames/North Sea flat sheet charts. It's in our digital chart pack ID10 North Sea as tillergirl mentions (you can use that on Raymarine plotters, Meridian, or our own chart app Imray Navigator) too.

    We're fans of electronic charts as much as anyone, but would always caution to check that you have the correct paper charts on board before you set out just in case your electronics fail.
    Dear Lucy,

    I had your pack 2000 on board, along with the Solent pack and the Kent and Sussex pack.

    Where is the chart that shows Long Sand Head? It shows the head of the sand itself but not the buoy.

    If that is the Jane Russell who sometimes posts here as Downthecreek, give her my warmest personal regards.
    Last edited by Kukri; 02-10-19 at 11:04.

Page 3 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Latest YBW News

Find Boats For Sale

to
to