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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
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    2,636

    Default Biggest polluter of our seas

    Merchant ships. Thousands and thousands of them. Fitted with 'Open Loop Scubbers'. Breaching the international agreements of ocean pollution, systematically and massively....

    Seea here: shipping-pollution-sea-open-loop-scrubber-carbon-dioxide-environment
    ......And that includes the hundreds of cruise liners, which operate in mostly pristine environments.

    Perhaps Sir David Attenborough might 'get hot under the collar' by this huge environmental crime....


    ( edited to emphasize the link, which is worth a peek. )
    Last edited by zoidberg; 01-10-19 at 17:05.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
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    East coast UK. Mostly. Sometimes the Philippines
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    9,810

    Default Re: Biggest polluter of our seas

    Quote Originally Posted by zoidberg View Post
    Merchant ships. Thousands and thousands of them. Fitted with 'Open Loop Scubbers'. Breaching the international agreements of ocean pollution, systematically and massively....

    Seea here: shipping-pollution-sea-open-loop-scrubber-carbon-dioxide-environment And that includes the hundreds of cruise liners, which operate in mostly pristine environments.

    Perhaps Sir David Attenborough might 'get hot under the collar' by this huge environmental crime....
    Hold your horses.

    Open loop scrubbers are fitted to rather few ships. They are a device to reduce sulphur oxide emissions when operating with residual fuel oil (the stuff that refineries have left after they have taken everything else out of crude oil) which typically has a sulphur content of around 3%. A good number of shipowners have fitted them but there is no need to cut SO emissions before 1/1/20 when the legislation cutting SOx emissions comes into effect.

    Other owners have fitted closed loop scrubbers and others, like my lot, will be buying 0.5% sulphur fuel oil. I have been against open loop scrubbers from the outset.

    Open loop scrubbers are banned on the coasts of the USA, Northern Europe and China, so far. This list will get longer soon.

    see eg here:

    https://www.egcsa.com/map-regulations/

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
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    East coast UK. Mostly. Sometimes the Philippines
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    Default Re: Biggest polluter of our seas

    And now I am going to tell you what I really think.

    Shipping is not, and never has been "the biggest polluter". Human beings on shore are the biggest polluter. Where the expleteive deleted do you suppose all that plastic in the seas comes from? Not from ships.

    IT COMES FROM YOU.

    You sort out your garbage as your local council tells you to and the council collects it and...

    ... sends it "for recycling" to third world countries where it is sold to factories who pick out what they can use and dump the rest into the local watercourse. It's not "their" filth; IT'S OURS

    Shipping emissions are relatively tiny. That cxxp about one ship doing more damage than some fabulous number of cars is just that - cxxp. I don't know many professional seamen who are not concerned to keep the oceans decent. I and many others like me have been concerned for several years to clean up shipping and we have got a very long way. It hasn't been easy. Just a couple of years ago the head of the German shipowners association was stalking me on the Internet and writing to my employers to get them to fire me. Nice. But I'm still here.

    read these:

    https://splash247.com/author/andrewcb/

    and read this:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MARPOL_73/78

    So cut out the lying clickbait.

    And yes, I am bloody angry.
    Last edited by Kukri; 01-10-19 at 16:43.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2001
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    North Wales, sailing Aegean Sea or Menai Strait
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    21,978

    Default Re: Biggest polluter of our seas

    According to a news item today regarding a remote island somewhere the vast majority of plastic pollution comes from China. Millions of plastic bottles washed up at a point where currents apparently collide. Sorry, I think it was in the Atlantic but was not concentrating at the time. I have read in the past that Nigeria and China between them contribute the major proportion of worldwide pollution.
    Answers to some technical queries at new website http://coxeng.co.uk

  5. #5
    Join Date
    May 2001
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    UK East Coast
    Posts
    36,655

    Default Re: Biggest polluter of our seas

    Quote Originally Posted by Minn View Post
    And now I am going to tell you what I really think.

    Shipping is not, and never has been "the biggest polluter". Human beings on shore are the biggest polluter. Where the expleteive deleted do you suppose all that plastic in the seas comes from? Not from ships.

    IT COMES FROM YOU.

    You sort out your garbage as your local council tells you to and the council collects it and...

    ... sends it "for recycling" to third world countries where it is sold to factories who pick out what they can use and dump the rest into the local watercourse. It's not "their" filth; IT'S OURS

    Shipping emissions are relatively tiny. That cxxp about one ship doing more damage than some fabulous number of cars is just that - cxxp. I don't know many professional seamen who are not concerned to keep the oceans decent. I and many others like me have been concerned for several years to clean up shipping and we have got a very long way.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MARPOL_73/78

    So cut out the lying clickbait.
    Well said! However, I don't think these third world countries can avoid criticism for letting their people throw plastics (ours or theirs) into their waters.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
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    Deale, MD, USA
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    1,794

    Default Re: Biggest polluter of our seas

    Test results. Without data this is just noise. But it may be important.

    I'm guessing the largest components are CO2 and SO4-2. Aside from pH impact, these are not actually regulated pollutants anywhere, since the ocean is loaded with both.

    But I could be wrong. Data.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Location
    World wide.
    Posts
    301

    Default Re: Biggest polluter of our seas

    Quote Originally Posted by zoidberg View Post
    Merchant ships. Thousands and thousands of them. Fitted with 'Open Loop Scubbers'. Breaching the international agreements of ocean pollution, systematically and massively....

    Seea here: shipping-pollution-sea-open-loop-scrubber-carbon-dioxide-environment And that includes the hundreds of cruise liners, which operate in mostly pristine environments.

    Perhaps Sir David Attenborough might 'get hot under the collar' by this huge environmental crime....
    That's a load of tosh. I would love like to see the source of this fake news.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
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    SoF
    Posts
    9,919

    Default Re: Biggest polluter of our seas

    Quote Originally Posted by zoidberg View Post
    Perhaps Sir David Attenborough might 'get hot under the collar' by this huge environmental crime....
    He can’t talk, his own ship is going into pristine waters to burn a lot of diesel and jet fuel
    Neither a Leaver or Remainer be

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Posts
    59

    Default Re: Biggest polluter of our seas

    Quote Originally Posted by vyv_cox View Post
    According to a news item today regarding a remote island somewhere the vast majority of plastic pollution comes from China. Millions of plastic bottles washed up at a point where currents apparently collide. Sorry, I think it was in the Atlantic but was not concentrating at the time. I have read in the past that Nigeria and China between them contribute the major proportion of worldwide pollution.
    I feel like China gets the blame but remember most of EU/US plastic is shipped to China/East-Asia for 'reprocessing' in empty shipping containers (see trade deficit!) but most of it is condemned and ends up in landfill/the ocean. China recently banned this, which meant it has ended up in other developing countries where environmental protections are lax.

    As for the shipping - yes another dirty trick to get past environmental legislation! These companies are basically profiting by externalising costs onto the environmental and thus onto us all. From the Independent, my bold:

    More than $12 billion has been spent on the devices, known as open-loop scrubbers, which extract sulphur from the exhaust fumes of ships that run on heavy fuel oil. This means the vessels meet standards demanded by the International Maritime Organization (IMO) that kick in on January 1st. However, the sulphur emitted by the ships is simply re-routed from the exhaust and expelled into the water around the ships, which not only greatly increases the volume of pollutants being pumped into the sea, but also increases carbon dioxide emissions

    A total of 3,756 ships, both in operation and under order, have already had scrubbers installed according to DNV GL, the world's largest ship classification company. Only 23 of these vessels have had closed-loop scrubbers installed, a version of the device that does not discharge into the sea and stores the extracted sulphur in tanks before discharging it at a safe disposal facility in a port. The Exhaust Gas Cleaning System Association has estimated that 4,000 ships will be operating with scrubbers by the time the legislation is enforced, up from fewer than a hundred in 2013. For every ton of fuel burned, ships using open-loop scrubbers emit approximately 45 tons of warm, acidic, contaminated washwater containing carcinogens including polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons (PAHs) and heavy metals, according to the International Council on Clean Transportation (ICCT), a non-profit organization that provides scientific analysis to environmental regulators.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
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    East coast UK. Mostly. Sometimes the Philippines
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    Default Re: Biggest polluter of our seas

    Quote Originally Posted by vyv_cox View Post
    According to a news item today regarding a remote island somewhere the vast majority of plastic pollution comes from China. Millions of plastic bottles washed up at a point where currents apparently collide. Sorry, I think it was in the Atlantic but was not concentrating at the time. I have read in the past that Nigeria and China between them contribute the major proportion of worldwide pollution.
    The spot where a few million tons have accumulated is the Pacific Gyre.

    There are various studies of what comes down rivers; one that I have seen showed China, Indonesia, and the Philippines as the three leading culprits. This may be changing a little as China has now stopped importing waste.

    Incidentally, Britain's biggest export by volume is - yes - domestic rubbish.
    Last edited by Kukri; 01-10-19 at 21:00.

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