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  1. #61
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Atlantic
    Posts
    21,369

    Default Re: Biggest polluter of our seas

    Some friends of ours have a Baltic Trader. After a more than twenty year refit(!) they finally sailed across to the Caribbean. Specifically Grenada. A big wish of theirs is to actually carry some cargo between islands, I think more for pose value but also as an advert. I think one or two other forum users may know them from their time up the river between Spain and Portugal. Pax Nostrum.

    Would be a fab Way of highlighting the need, in my opinion.

  2. #62
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Posts
    2,636

    Default Re: Biggest polluter of our seas

    Quote Originally Posted by Minn View Post
    ....... a sailing galeass with eight tons of hay. I remember seeing the Cambria under sail and down to her gunwales with cargo. Coastal sail is not that far away in time.
    Where today would we find the people with the right skills to bring a laden coastal barge right up the likes of the Beaulieu River, drudging on the young flood, to deliver beer to the Montagu Arms?

    And get her away again.....?

  3. #63
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    North Wales, sailing Aegean Sea or Menai Strait
    Posts
    21,978

    Default Re: Biggest polluter of our seas

    Quote Originally Posted by zoidberg View Post
    Where today would we find the people with the right skills to bring a laden coastal barge right up the likes of the Beaulieu River, drudging on the young flood, to deliver beer to the Montagu Arms?

    And get her away again.....?
    Possibly nowhere but these skills can be re-acquired. In the refinery where I worked for a while the management had followed the disastrous advice common a few years ago that led them to 'outsource' all their engineering trades. In the 1970s the refinery central workshops carried out every maintenance activity imaginable, including rewinding electric motors, rebuilding pumps and compressors, retubing heat exchangers, and much more besides. All of this was swept away in the supposed drive for economies.

    Fast forward to the early 2000s. Few of these engineering skills now exist because every company adopted the same flawed logic, abandoning apprenticeships in engineering topics. The refinery now found that welding and turning expertise was either unavailable, expensive or with very long lead times. So they have begun the slow process of rebuilding in-house skills, training operators to become very accomplished turners and welders. Apprenticeships are being offered in various trades.

    No doubt the same process could regenerate the sailing skills of yesteryear.
    Answers to some technical queries at new website http://coxeng.co.uk

  4. #64
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    East coast UK. Mostly. Sometimes the Philippines
    Posts
    9,810

    Default Re: Biggest polluter of our seas

    I agree with Vyv; these skills can be re-acquired.

    I think we are going to have to not merely «*de-carbonise*» as the trendies put it but give up on chemical fuels and on chemical fertilisers herbicides and pesticides and to radically re-think our approach to fishing as well.

    The sailing cargo ships of the future won’t be wooden and probably they won’t be steel either. There’s some work being done with sailing super yachts which might have a commercial application.

    The biggest square rigged commercial sailing ship was the Preussen of F. Laietz’s Flying P Line, a 7,000 ton bulk carrier, but no longer. The Royal Clipper of Star Clippers’ fleet is actually built on the same lines but bigger... she has a deck crew of 20 iirc...

  5. #65
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Sydney, Australia.
    Posts
    5,504

    Default Re: Biggest polluter of our seas

    I thought this link might indicate that with the best will in the world some people will try to circumvent the system

    https://www.theguardian.com/environm...ing-oil-at-sea

    For this to happen lot of people must have known.

    Jonathan

  6. #66
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Belgium
    Posts
    1,709

    Default Re: Biggest polluter of our seas

    Quote Originally Posted by Minn View Post
    I agree with Vyv; these skills can be re-acquired.

    I think we are going to have to not merely «*de-carbonise*» as the trendies put it but give up on chemical fuels and on chemical fertilisers herbicides and pesticides and to radically re-think our approach to fishing as well.

    The sailing cargo ships of the future won’t be wooden and probably they won’t be steel either. There’s some work being done with sailing super yachts which might have a commercial application.

    The biggest square rigged commercial sailing ship was the Preussen of F. Laietz’s Flying P Line, a 7,000 ton bulk carrier, but no longer. The Royal Clipper of Star Clippers’ fleet is actually built on the same lines but bigger... she has a deck crew of 20 iirc...
    There is the Tres Hombres, a sailing cargo vessel. https://www.treshombres.eu/story
    I have seen them several times in the Channel and the North Sea

  7. #67
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    406

    Default Re: Biggest polluter of our seas

    Quote Originally Posted by Neeves View Post
    I thought this link might indicate that with the best will in the world some people will try to circumvent the system

    https://www.theguardian.com/environm...ing-oil-at-sea

    For this to happen lot of people must have known.

    Jonathan
    Magic pipe offences have been going on for a long time, but oil record books and aerial surveillance catch up with a lot of them. I'm in no way defending it, but I think Minn will confirm that it only takes an engineer to be on the dodgy side for this to happen, rather than it being an industry conspiracy. And despite the imagined wealth of shipowners, £40m is still going to smart so it's not exactly encouraged.

  8. #68
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    London
    Posts
    6,519

    Default Re: Biggest polluter of our seas

    Quote Originally Posted by Minn View Post
    I agree with Vyv; these skills can be re-acquired.

    I think we are going to have to not merely «*de-carbonise*» as the trendies put it but give up on chemical fuels and on chemical fertilisers herbicides and pesticides and to radically re-think our approach to fishing as well.

    The sailing cargo ships of the future won’t be wooden and probably they won’t be steel either. There’s some work being done with sailing super yachts which might have a commercial application.

    The biggest square rigged commercial sailing ship was the Preussen of F. Laietz’s Flying P Line, a 7,000 ton bulk carrier, but no longer. The Royal Clipper of Star Clippers’ fleet is actually built on the same lines but bigger... she has a deck crew of 20 iirc...
    You can still see a few bones of the Preussen if you stand atop the cliffs between Dover and the South Foreland and know where to look. Ironically she was hit by a steamer which tried to cross ahead of her not realising that a mere sailing ship could possibly go "that fast".

  9. #69
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Sydney, Australia.
    Posts
    5,504

    Default Re: Biggest polluter of our seas

    Quote Originally Posted by Biggles Wader View Post
    You can still see a few bones of the Preussen if you stand atop the cliffs between Dover and the South Foreland and know where to look. Ironically she was hit by a steamer which tried to cross ahead of her not realising that a mere sailing ship could possibly go "that fast".
    We were challenged by an oil tanker one night for not displaying a steaming (or engine) light when making 10 knots crossing Bass Strait. They did not believe a yacht could move that fast (which makes you wonder where they have been all these years) and specifically altered course to intercept us (scaring us witless) and have a look using their searchlight.

    They did subsequently apologise for doubting our word.

    Jonathan

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