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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
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    Default Re: Biggest polluter of our seas

    Quote Originally Posted by capnsensible View Post
    Click on the link. Doesnt seem that false to me?
    I did. Don't believe everything people tell you. Especially newspapers.

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
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    6,916

    Default Re: Biggest polluter of our seas

    On the subject of scrubbing specifically, here’s a review (in full, not paywalled) by a group of independent researchers in scientific and other organisations in Germany, Belgium, the UK and Sweden. It resulted from a workshop of the International Surface Ocean - Lower Atmosphere Study (SOLAS) project, in October 2016, but appears to have been updated with references through 2017.

    ‘A New Perspective at the Ship-Air-Sea-Interface: The Environmental Impacts of Exhaust Gas Scrubber Discharge’, Endres et al.; Front. Mar. Sci., 24 April 2018. https://www.frontiersin.org/articles...018.00139/full

    Its conclusions included these, inter alia:

    ‘The use of new emission reduction technologies, such as scrubbers, in the shipping industry has benefited the environment by significantly reducing the release of pollutants to the atmosphere. However, there is incomplete understanding of the impact of scrubber wash water discharge on marine chemistry, biodiversity, and biogeochemical processes. In particular, there is limited information on the amount and composition of wash water discharge and the associated marine biological impacts. …

    We conclude that despite the existing guidelines for levels of monitoring and compliance of scrubber wash water, there is still the risk for acidification, eutrophication, and accumulation of pollutants in the marine environment, especially in the coastal regions, with often already higher background concentrations of contaminants and less dilution compared to the open sea. …

    Whether scrubbers are currently the most environmental-friendly technology is still unclear.’

    I don’t know to what extent those conclusions might have been amended by subsequent developments, but if they have been I guess somebody may be able to explain how, and with suitable references.

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
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    Atlantic
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    21,262

    Default Re: Biggest polluter of our seas

    Quote Originally Posted by Minn View Post
    You are now trolling.

    I give up. I have other things to do with my time. Bye.
    Not at all. Looking for a simple answer. You appear to be well informed. The article makes a statement. What conclusion should I draw from you getting a bit short tempered and refusing to answer?

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
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    Atlantic
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    21,262

    Default Re: Biggest polluter of our seas

    Quote Originally Posted by 38mess View Post
    I did. Don't believe everything people tell you. Especially newspapers.
    Journalists?

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
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    World wide.
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    295

    Default Re: Biggest polluter of our seas

    Quote Originally Posted by capnsensible View Post
    Journalists?
    Yes. I'm off to work now, so good luck.

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Atlantic
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    21,262

    Default Re: Biggest polluter of our seas

    Quote Originally Posted by 38mess View Post
    Yes. I'm off to work now, so good luck.
    Thanks.

    But what bothers me is that they print this:

    A total of 3,756 ships, both in operation and under order, have already had scrubbers installed according to DNV GL, the world’s largest ship classification company.

    Only 23 of these vessels have had closed-loop scrubbers installed, a version of the device that does not discharge into the sea and stores the extracted sulphur in tanks before discharging it at a safe disposal facility in a port.


    And you guys 'in the know' get a bit squirmy and wont address it on a teensy little forum like this.

    You see I really want it to be wrong and the shipping industry seen to be doing some self inspection.

    I would like to see local shops not selling plastic wrapped junk from China that has expended zillions of gallons of fossil fuel to get a single use hammer into a warehouse sized emporium.

    Id like to see cars built in the countries where they are gonna be sold under licence so they dont have to be shipped around the world.

    Ad nauseum.

    But Id settle for a simple answer........

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Atlantic
    Posts
    21,262

    Default Re: Biggest polluter of our seas

    Oh and Minn, Ive bookmarked the link to your articles to read at leisure thank you.

    Was that picture taken a long time ago?

  8. #28
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    UK East Coast
    Posts
    36,521

    Default Re: Biggest polluter of our seas

    Quote Originally Posted by capnsensible View Post
    Was that picture taken a long time ago?
    Ouch!

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    East coast UK. Mostly. Sometimes the Philippines
    Posts
    9,759

    Default Re: Biggest polluter of our seas

    Quote Originally Posted by capnsensible View Post
    Not at all. Looking for a simple answer. You appear to be well informed. The article makes a statement. What conclusion should I draw from you getting a bit short tempered and refusing to answer?
    You could perhaps consider that :

    A. I had already shown, had you read the links I posted, that the question is very much more complicated than that

    B. I have opposed open loop scrubbers for several years now; I have been cyber stalked and threatened because of my position which is now becoming more widely shared

    C I had had a long day at work and was looking forward (not) to a two hour drive home in vile weather.

    Oh, yes, the picture was taken in 2013:



    Anything else you need to know?
    Last edited by Kukri; 01-10-19 at 21:05.

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    5,541

    Default Re: Biggest polluter of our seas

    Read a couple of your links Minn, references to Ludwig Wittgenstein brought me back!

    Top notch analysis, truly good, cleared more than a little up, tks.

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