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  1. #41
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    5,550

    Default Re: If they can't see rocks and a lighthouse, what chance do we have?

    Quote Originally Posted by mm42 View Post
    I wonder how many yachts?
    Considering the many owners that happily let their boats ground twice a day.....

    ......lots!

  2. #42
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Location
    Scarborough
    Posts
    259

    Default Re: If they can't see rocks and a lighthouse, what chance do we have?

    Iíd wager that yachts running aground are far more common than 20 a year, even taking into account the comparative number of vessel movements compared to merchant vessels.

  3. #43
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    East Sussex.
    Posts
    21,424

    Default Re: If they can't see rocks and a lighthouse, what chance do we have?

    This is the bit that got me:
    8TimeStationVHF transmission0439:55Priscilla’s OOW“We are approaching a danger, I will change course”
    0440:05Orkney VTSO“Yes sir, there is clear water to the south at this time. Thank you"
    0440:15Priscilla’s OOW“I need to go to starboard right”(stated as a question)
    0440:32Orkney VTSO“Priscilla this is Orkney VTS, for information there are rocks 5 cables1 ahead of you, there are rocks 5 cables ahead of you. There is clear water to the south, over”
    0440:48Priscilla’s OOW“Ah, I need to change course to the south”(stated as a question)
    0441:00Orkney VTSO“Priscilla this is VTS there is rocks 5 cables ahead of you, 5 cables ahead of you. There is clear water to the south, over”

    He is travelling west, is told to turn south, and thinks he has to turn to starboard! There is no helping some people.
    Working on immortality - One day at a time.

  4. #44
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    S.W. France
    Posts
    7,710

    Default Re: If they can't see rocks and a lighthouse, what chance do we have?

    I suspect his future is flipping burgers.
    How he got that far is mindboggling. Surely (Shirley) the other crew would have clocked his failings??

  5. #45
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Posts
    381

    Default Re: If they can't see rocks and a lighthouse, what chance do we have?

    Quote Originally Posted by mel80 View Post
    If you read the transcript, he wasn't ever told which way to turn. It sound like a language issue to me. The meaning of "Clear water" is not entirely straightforward for a non-native English speaker..
    Reading the transcript again I think you are right. If he does not understand “clear water” he would be confused. The shore authority should have said “ turn to port by 90 degrees immediately” if they were permitted to do so. However, I suspect that they are not allowed to give navigation instructions only information.

    The watch keeper is still incompetent to get in that position in the first place but maybe the last couple of minutes are understandable.

  6. #46
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Location
    Scarborough
    Posts
    259

    Default Re: If they can't see rocks and a lighthouse, what chance do we have?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dutch01527 View Post
    Reading the transcript again I think you are right. If he does not understand “clear water” he would be confused. The shore authority should have said “ turn to port by 90 degrees immediately” if they were permitted to do so. However, I suspect that they are not allowed to give navigation instructions only information.
    No disrespect but thatís the issue with people commentating on a scenario theyíre not sure about. The VTS was an information service not a TOS, and in any event the incident occurred outside of their VTS area, so they canít give instructions.

    Also to a watch keeper the term clear water should be perfectly understandable.

  7. #47
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Long Beach. CA.
    Posts
    2,695

    Default Re: If they can't see rocks and a lighthouse, what chance do we have?

    Few random comments.

    I was freelance for most of UK work but don't recall any of the companies requiring drug tests or being subject to random testing. Here in the US both companies I worked for require pre employment screen and I was subject to random tests, even stores routinely require a pr employment test. It's also a USCG requirement to be tested within 2 hours of an incident. I don't know if this is because drugs are more freely available here and indeed some are legal in some states. But DOT safety critical jobs are not allowed recreational drugs, merchant marine, truck drivers, bus drivers, etc.

    VTS will not give instructions on navigation as its firstly not their role and secondly they are not 'qualified' to make those decisions. The local VTS will prompt vessels to make a descision especially regarding passing arrangement. And expect those discussions to be made on the VTS VHF channel. Things here are very different over here but from memory Humber, Soithampton, Thames were the same.

    I wonder if he was thinking he needed to turn to starboard because that would have taken him back to his track?

    Rgarding age, it's not about the number of years but the maturity of the person. Something I have noticed here more so.

    W.
    .

  8. #48
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    3,248

    Default Re: If they can't see rocks and a lighthouse, what chance do we have?

    When ever a system is relying on a single human.

    The risk of shit happening is relatively high.

    I don’t agree with random drug testing. Unfortunately America doesn’t value actual freedom.
    Even so.
    Shit still happens. Particularly when there is only one human.

  9. #49
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Posts
    381

    Default Re: If they can't see rocks and a lighthouse, what chance do we have?

    Quote Originally Posted by mm42 View Post
    No disrespect but that’s the issue with people commentating on a scenario they’re not sure about. The VTS was an information service not a TOS, and in any event the incident occurred outside of their VTS area, so they can’t give instructions. QUOTE
    .
    Also to a watch keeper the term clear water should be perfectly understandable.
    No disrespect taken, my post speculated that was the case so I am pleased that you have confirmed my thoughts. If you are suggesting that only bona fide experts on a subject should post on a topic that would make for very limited discussions.

    To someone who’s native language is not English clear water is not a well used term. Safe water or deep water would have been much better.
    Last edited by Dutch01527; 09-10-19 at 06:53.

  10. #50
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Fareham
    Posts
    6,670

    Default Re: If they can't see rocks and a lighthouse, what chance do we have?

    It is a truism that there is always safe water behind you! (If lost or confused go back the way you came until you can sort it out.) But he also seemed to be concerned about covering up his earlier mistake and turning 180 degrees would have made that a bit obvious.
    ۞

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