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  1. #51
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    Nov 2009
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    Default Re: AIS - essential kit these days for channel crossing?

    Quote Originally Posted by awol View Post
    So you believe that an AIS transceiver responds to a message from another transmitter by automatically transmitting? I and the relevant standards think otherwise.
    Errrrrrr ..... nope, and I've never said as such. What I said was "An AIS device that receives and transmits IS a transponder".

    (Do we hear the sound of pennies dropping yet? )

    Richard

  2. #52
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
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    Farnham, Surrey
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    21,398

    Default Re: AIS - essential kit these days for channel crossing?

    Quote Originally Posted by boatmike View Post
    I always work on the basis that I would rather take appropriate action to avoid others than rely on them missing me. I drive a car the same way. If you assume all other drivers are idiots you will be prepared when you meet the one that is! On that basis I have radar and a 12" chartplotter with AIS receive only. Unfortunately you need a decent chartplotter to make AIS useful and it won't be much use on a tiny cheap one but if your buddy has a decent chartplotter he can buy a receiver quite cheaply. Don't forget to budget for a decent antenna splitter or separate antenna though or it won't work!
    I really really hope that your first sentence doesn’t mean you alter course for any ship that looks as though it might come anywhere near you.
    Semper aliud

  3. #53
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
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    Me Edinburgh, boat JWD
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    5,150

    Default Re: AIS - essential kit these days for channel crossing?

    Quote Originally Posted by RichardS View Post
    Errrrrrr ..... nope, and I've never said as such. What I said was "An AIS device that receives and transmits IS a transponder".

    (Do we hear the sound of pennies dropping yet? )

    Richard
    No more a transponder than you are. The transmitted message has nought to do with the received. Or have you just invented a new device?

  4. #54
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
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    9,617

    Default Re: AIS - essential kit these days for channel crossing?

    Quote Originally Posted by awol View Post
    No more a transponder than you are. The transmitted message has nought to do with the received. Or have you just invented a new device?
    Just as easy to add to ignore rather than point out black isn't white, thread killer as he's like trump and will never ever admit to being wrong..

  5. #55
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    Nov 2009
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    20,239

    Default Re: AIS - essential kit these days for channel crossing?

    Quote Originally Posted by awol View Post
    No more a transponder than you are. The transmitted message has nought to do with the received. Or have you just invented a new device?
    It's getting rather painful now Awol, so I think we need to draw this to a close but I'll try once more to reach that "tipping point".

    AIS transponders and AIS transceivers belong to the subset of AIS devices which are able to both receive and transmit AIS data, although the two devices operate differently in the way the receive/transmit function is implemented.

    Kerching ..... hopefully.

    Richard

  6. #56
    Join Date
    May 2007
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    38,117

    Default Re: AIS - essential kit these days for channel crossing?

    Quote Originally Posted by awol View Post
    No more a transponder than you are. The transmitted message has nought to do with the received. Or have you just invented a new device?
    It's kind of open to debate.
    It's a transponder in a sense because the transmitted message is sort-of controlled by the message(s) it receives, in terms of the timing. But it's not an immediate response to every message.
    SRT use the word 'transponder' particularly wrt class B units, that's good enough for me.
    Define:
    transponder
    /tranˈspɒndə,trɑːnˈspɒndə/

    noun: transponder; plural noun: transponders

    a device for receiving a radio signal and automatically transmitting a different signal.


    'Different signal' often means the same data or content, at a different frequency.

  7. #57
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    Nov 2009
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    Default Re: AIS - essential kit these days for channel crossing?

    Quote Originally Posted by GHA View Post
    Just as easy to add to ignore rather than point out black isn't white, thread killer as he's like trump and will never ever admit to being wrong..
    If there is a "thread killer" here, surely that's the pedant Awol telling us that we're all "ignorant" when we all know exactly what we mean by the use of the terms "transceiver" and "transponder" in this thread.

    It's all very well trying to be a "Mr Smarty Pants" but to do that, one really has to be smart to start with.

    So, on that point GHA, please tell us all why you believe that an AIS transponder does not receive and transmit AIS data.

    Richard
    Last edited by RichardS; 04-10-19 at 11:37.

  8. #58
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
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    Me - Zumerzet Boat - Wareham
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    12,269

    Default Re: AIS - essential kit these days for channel crossing?

    Back to the subject in hand, what you have never had you don't miss. I did channel crossings for thirty odd years without AIS and preferred to cross at night so I could see when I had crossed the path of a ship when his port and starboard lights switched colour. When I fitted an AIS receiver I knew for sure how far away a ship would cross and when I learned how to use it in more depth I could see that ships that were on a collision course actually changed course to avoid me and the odd one that didn't I could contact on VHF. After a few years with a receiver and the price of transceivers came down, I felt guilty that I could see what others were doing but they couldn't see what I was up to so replaced the receiver with a transceiver.
    Another advantage of a transceiver is that other small boats with a receiver but no RADAR could also see me. That is also an advantage of AIS over an RTE, where other boats have an AIS receiver but no RADAR.
    MontyMariner.co.uk
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  9. #59
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
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    Me Edinburgh, boat JWD
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    Default Re: AIS - essential kit these days for channel crossing?

    Quote Originally Posted by lw395 View Post

    Define: transponder /tranˈspɒndə,trɑːnˈspɒndə/
    noun: transponder; plural noun: transponders

    a device for receiving a radio signal and automatically transmitting a different signal.

    'Different signal' often means the same data or content, at a different frequency.
    Which despite RichardS's assertion does not describe an AIS transceiver as presently used by ships and other craft.
    Pedantic, indeed yes, but if words are used wrongly, credibility in the message is diminished as is that of the sender. Arguing that "we all know exactly what we mean" is just another of the dumbing down, anti-expert attitudes that is only too prevalent in present times.

  10. #60
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
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    Cowes
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    596

    Default Re: AIS - essential kit these days for channel crossing?

    Quote Originally Posted by LadyInBed View Post
    ...
    Another advantage of a transceiver is that other small boats with a receiver but no RADAR could also see me. That is also an advantage of AIS over an RTE, where other boats have an AIS receiver but no RADAR.
    Yes that's true, if it's either/or (AIS or radar).
    However..I care less about them than ships, which mainly use radar.
    "Now shall the gentleman haul and draw with the mariner"
    John Hawkins

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