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Thread: HMS Pembroke

  1. #51
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    Default Re: HMS Pembroke

    The thing about warship refits is that you are not just maintaining what exists but usually trying to bring the vessel and it's kit up to the latest standards so that it can continue to be effective against the perceived threat. On a mine hunter, I suspect that might mean replacing or upgrading its minehunting sonar and a whole range of other possibilities from better radar to better communications to integration of remote vehicles and so on.

  2. #52
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    Default Re: HMS Pembroke

    Quote Originally Posted by mainsail1 View Post
    The thing about warship refits is that you are not just maintaining what exists but usually trying to bring the vessel and it's kit up to the latest standards so that it can continue to be effective against the perceived threat. On a mine hunter, I suspect that might mean replacing or upgrading its minehunting sonar and a whole range of other possibilities from better radar to better communications to integration of remote vehicles and so on.
    Not to mention that it is also about maintaining the skills of the shoreside workers so that if, in the very unlikely event, we ever get into a conflict that we need them, we still have them. The people employed by babcock need to keep their own skills up too, and the establishments need to be maintained in a form that keeps them in a ready state. Once those personnel and their facilities are gone, they take a long, long time to bring back again.

    A regular commercial ship line can, if they need to, just drop an existing supplier of goods and services and go somewhere else. If, God forbid, we end up needing the navy in a shooting war, then the support systems cannot just be bought off the shelf. Heck, even in peacetime it can be problematic. Part of the reason Russia's navy is a joke right now and their carrier spends most of its time behind a tug boat, is that, in a fever of post-communist capitalism in the 1990s, they degraded their support systems to the point that Russia literally cannot build replacements. They do not have the infrastructure anymore. The type of, tabloid decried as excessive, spending and timescales that the RN is putting in is essential to keep the navy running in the event we need it for its actual job. You want it for wartime, you have to pay for it in peacetime too.

  3. #53
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    Default Re: HMS Pembroke

    Will it still take six months and nine months to refit a mine counter measures ship in wartime?

  4. #54
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    Default Re: HMS Pembroke

    Quote Originally Posted by Kukri View Post
    Will it still take six months and nine months to refit a mine counter measures ship in wartime?
    No. It wont get refitted in war time. War wont last that long. But the ones operating in the middle east will have regular maintenance periods and rotated to the UK for refit.

    Second best is not good enough.

  5. #55
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    Default Re: HMS Pembroke

    Quote Originally Posted by Kukri View Post
    Will it still take six months and nine months to refit a mine counter measures ship in wartime?
    If we haven't kept the facilities and skilled personnel then it wouldn't be possible to do it at all.

  6. #56
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    Default Re: HMS Pembroke

    Quote Originally Posted by Skeffles View Post
    If we haven't kept the facilities and skilled personnel then it wouldn't be possible to do it at all.
    If we don’t need to refit them in wartime, we don’t need to refit them in the UK, where our facilities are expensive and poorly managed. We could send them all to Japan, an allied nation which is rather good at running a Navy and at building and repairing warships. If our warships cannot get that far without breaking down, we could ship them on heavy lift ships...

    HMS Nottingham demonstrates the idea:

    Last edited by Kukri; 06-11-19 at 15:50.

  7. #57
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    Default Re: HMS Pembroke

    You must have seen the complete refit package then to draw that conclusion. I mean no one would base their argument on not knowing the facts, would they?

  8. #58
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    Default Re: HMS Pembroke

    Quote Originally Posted by capnsensible View Post
    I mean no one would base their argument on not knowing the facts, would they?
    Oh, I don’t know. You seem to do quite well at it. Perhaps you come from the part of the Navy that ascribed a mis-aligned tailshaft to contact with a lobster pot, on broadcast television, thereby adding much to the gaiety of nations other than this one.

    I am reminded of Sir John Parker’s account of the Royal Corps of Naval Constructors asking Harland and Wolff, which he was then running, to quote for HMS Fort Victoria. There was a blank space on the drawings. He asked «*What’s that?*»
    «*We can’t tell you; it’s secret!*»
    «*How am I meant to quote for it, then?*»
    «*You just guess!*»

  9. #59
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    Default Re: HMS Pembroke

    I am reminded of a car mechanic giving a price to fix a car without even seeing the car let alone knowing what's gone wrong.......

    Regarding your anecdote, I don't believe it.
    Last edited by capnsensible; 06-11-19 at 18:15.

  10. #60
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    Default Re: HMS Pembroke

    Quote Originally Posted by capnsensible View Post
    I am reminded of a car mechanic giving a price to fix a car without even seeing the car let alone knowing what's gone wrong.......

    Regarding your anecdote, I don't believe it.
    I have the advantage of knowing Sir John, who has been a keen yachtsman for many years. You evidently do not.

    Nor do you seem to know anything of shipbuilding and ship repair. But you can b******t for Britain.
    Last edited by Kukri; 06-11-19 at 18:30.

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