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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Posts
    6

    Default Re: Isotemp unit drained for winter, shut off engine coolant feed ?

    Quote Originally Posted by MapisM View Post
    Non sequitur: preventing this particular failure is clearly a certainty rather than a hope, if like in my boat you've got valves directly screwed on the engine outlets/inlets of the heating loop, and you keep them closed.
    And as I said, the usefulness of the disabled function is absolutely none, with my type of boating.
    I already acknowledged that this can be different for yourself and/or other boaters, though.
    Can't see why you shouldn't accept that it's different for me too.

    Lastly, of course I agree that there are dozens of other possible problem sources on a boat engine - that's stating the obvious.
    But I don't think there's any way to get rid of them all, other than give up boating altogether.
    To get rid of this one, I just had to close a couple of valves, with zero drawbacks (for me).
    Pretty much a no brainer: unlikely as it might be this problem (but tell that to the chap who experienced it in open sea!) it still means dozens minus one...
    Each to their own, of course, though Iím with the leave it in use brigade.

    Thereís no more chance of failure than any of the other coolant hoses and Calorifier hoses are generally far more accessible and easier to routinely examine/replace ... And relatively cheap.

    Iím not a big fan of isolator valves either ... Useful if you want to change the Calorifier but not much help if a hose bursts as, by the time you notice it, the damage is done ... You may as well simply carry a spare hose for what they cost and replace it after youíve mopped out the engine bay and before refilling from the 10 litres of ready mixed coolant we all carry

    Free hot water from the engine ... Luvly jubly.

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Posts
    17,758

    Default Re: Isotemp unit drained for winter, shut off engine coolant feed ?

    Yup, I never disputed the each to their own principle, so no disagreement on that.

    Otoh, by saying nonchalantly "after you've mopped the engine bay" you are making me guess that you've never seen an e/r after one coolant hose blew with the engine running at cruising speed.
    And you can trust me when I said that in the one I had a chance to see, the effects were still visible after two full days of thorough cleaning.
    Anyhow, let's leave this aside - I'm happy to concede that this doesn't happen every other day, and probably it's not a good enough reason to give up the functionality for anyone who appreciates it.

    The real reason why I'm following up further is your "no more chance of failure than any of the other coolant hoses" statement.
    In fact, already a few days ago, after Beamishken mentioned "any other of the many water hoses", I wondered why I never noticed all those hoses, so I had a careful look around in my e/r.
    And I found out that the simple reason why I never noticed them is that I have NONE!
    Well, not in my MAN engines, anyway. But by heart, I would swear that the same was true for my previous CATs.

    So, out of curiosity, which sort of engines are you folks talking about, whose closed cooling circuit is so poorly designed to need all those rubber hoses?!?
    My funny feeling is that you are mixing up the closed cooling circuit (which is what feeds the boiler through the ONLY rubber hoses where 85+ deg pressurized liquid is flowing, in my e/r) with the raw water circuit (which obviously does have rubber hoses).
    But the latter is a very different kettle of fish, because neither temperature nor pressure is anywhere near those in the closed cooling circuit!
    And it has nothing to see with the boiler loop, anyway.

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Posts
    6

    Default Re: Isotemp unit drained for winter, shut off engine coolant feed ?

    Quote Originally Posted by MapisM View Post
    Yup, I never disputed the each to their own principle, so no disagreement on that.

    Otoh, by saying nonchalantly "after you've mopped the engine bay" you are making me guess that you've never seen an e/r after one coolant hose blew with the engine running at cruising speed.
    And you can trust me when I said that in the one I had a chance to see, the effects were still visible after two full days of thorough cleaning.
    Anyhow, let's leave this aside - I'm happy to concede that this doesn't happen every other day, and probably it's not a good enough reason to give up the functionality for anyone who appreciates it.

    The real reason why I'm following up further is your "no more chance of failure than any of the other coolant hoses" statement.
    In fact, already a few days ago, after Beamishken mentioned "any other of the many water hoses", I wondered why I never noticed all those hoses, so I had a careful look around in my e/r.
    And I found out that the simple reason why I never noticed them is that I have NONE!
    Well, not in my MAN engines, anyway. But by heart, I would swear that the same was true for my previous CATs.

    So, out of curiosity, which sort of engines are you folks talking about, whose closed cooling circuit is so poorly designed to need all those rubber hoses?!?
    My funny feeling is that you are mixing up the closed cooling circuit (which is what feeds the boiler through the ONLY rubber hoses where 85+ deg pressurized liquid is flowing, in my e/r) with the raw water circuit (which obviously does have rubber hoses).
    But the latter is a very different kettle of fish, because neither temperature nor pressure is anywhere near those in the closed cooling circuit!
    And it has nothing to see with the boiler loop, anyway.
    The KAD32 series engines have hoses between the heat exchanger and water pump/thermostat housing ... Not all that easy to get at either.

    Iím not sure if this is actually a poor design to be honest as the vast majority of diesel automotive engines usually have high pressure/temperature hoses as part of their coolant circulation system.

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    north ayrshire
    Posts
    495

    Default Re: Isotemp unit drained for winter, shut off engine coolant feed ?

    My yanmars have rubber hoses on the freshwater side and the cmd diesels in my previous boat had rubber hoses too as does every van truck bus & car on the roads.
    To be honest a bit of antifreeze sprayed around the engine bay is nothing compared to a sewater hose bursting & spraying seawater everywhere.
    Antifreeze will wash off with a jet wash & any residue wont do any harm, most insurance companies will write off the entire electrics if the get wet with seawater as you can never fully get rid of the salt & it sits there attracting moisture & corrosion.
    Id rather clean up after a freshwater hose than a raw water hose failure

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Posts
    17,758

    Default Re: Isotemp unit drained for winter, shut off engine coolant feed ?

    Me too, but burst salt water hoses downstream of the pump?!? THAT is an unheard of event!
    In fact, also rubber hoses for the raw water circuit should have no place in a marine engine.
    The only "unavoidable" post-pump sea water rubber hose I can think of are the two (in-out) hoses for the g/box cooler, typically very short and easily accessible. I don't have any others, in my boat.
    What sort of hoses do/did you have, in Yanmars/Cummins?

    PS: ref. automotive diesels, the comparison doesn't hold water at all, if you 'scuse the pun.
    Radiators are attached to the chassis rather than to the engine, while in marine diesels the opposite is true.
    Well, at least in all marine engines I came across so far!

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Posts
    17,758

    Default Re: Isotemp unit drained for winter, shut off engine coolant feed ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Seeline View Post
    The KAD32 series engines have hoses between the heat exchanger and water pump/thermostat housing ... Not all that easy to get at either.

    I’m not sure if this is actually a poor design to be honest as the vast majority of diesel automotive engines usually have high pressure/temperature hoses as part of their coolant circulation system.
    Yuk!
    Yeah, in hindsight it's unfair to call it a poor design.
    AWFUL design is more like it!
    Ref. the automotive comparison, see my previous reply to Beamishken...

  7. #27
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    Jersey/Antibes
    Posts
    22,689

    Default Re: Isotemp unit drained for winter, shut off engine coolant feed ?

    @mapism: Donít you have rubber hoses going to the exhaust elbow injection point? From both the main engine heat exchanger and the gearbox cooler. And then to the genset exhaust separator. And the hydraulic oil cooler. And the aircon chiller raw water circuits. I have zillions of seawater pressurised rubber hoses in my engine room, downstream of the pumps, and I donít worry about it.
    I also have lots of pressurised rubber hoses carrying black water downstream of my Tecma WC pumps and black tank discharge pumps, which I do worry about a little bit.
    Last edited by jfm; 21-10-19 at 18:02.

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Posts
    17,758

    Default Re: Isotemp unit drained for winter, shut off engine coolant feed ?

    Quote Originally Posted by jfm View Post
    Donít you have rubber hoses going to the exhaust elbow injection point?
    Of course, but that's sea water, so not really pressurized.
    And even less so by the time it gets there, where it's almost sucked into the exhaust, courtesy of the scavenging effect of u/w exhausts, at least on P boats.

    Quote Originally Posted by jfm View Post
    From both the main engine heat exchanger and the gearbox cooler.
    Yes again, as per my post #25 - but that's also part of the raw water circuit, hence very low pressure and temp.

    Quote Originally Posted by jfm View Post
    And then to the genset exhaust separator.
    Same as previous!

    Quote Originally Posted by jfm View Post
    And the hydraulic oil cooler.
    Naah, that's for posh boats with hydraulic fin stabs!

    Quote Originally Posted by jfm View Post
    And the aircon chiller raw water circuits.
    Yawn. Raw water again.

    Quote Originally Posted by jfm View Post
    I have zillions of seawater pressurised rubber hoses in my engine room, downstream of the pumps, and I donít worry about it.
    I also have lots of pressurised rubber hoses carrying black water downstream of my Tecma WC pumps and black tank discharge pumps, which I do worry about a little bit.
    All well and good J, but in none of your examples there are rubber hoses carrying pressurized 85 deg cooling liquid (and a very critical one, for evident reasons), aside from the boiler loop.

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    north ayrshire
    Posts
    495

    Default Re: Isotemp unit drained for winter, shut off engine coolant feed ?

    Quote Originally Posted by MapisM View Post
    Me too, but burst salt water hoses downstream of the pump?!? THAT is an unheard of event!
    In fact, also rubber hoses for the raw water circuit should have no place in a marine engine.

    Well, at least in all marine engines I came across so far!
    Perhaps you should take a look at this recent thread
    http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread...an-anyone-help
    A forum member who almost lost his boat due to a rubber hose failure downstream of the raw water pump. Probably caused be a temporary lack of coolant supply allowing the hose to get just hot enough to melt.
    Afaik its a fairly common occurrence a short loss of cooling water and the exhaust burns the rubber connectors to the exhaust.
    The point is any hose can fail and there are dozens on a boat turning off the calorifier reduces your chances of a failed hose by such a small amount its hardly worth considering it a reduction in risk
    I work in an industry where we use rubber hoses pressured up to 15000psi where a failure could be fatal and we don't worry, we have a test procedure & monitoring regime & haven't had a failure in 15 years. If hoses are correctly rated & maintained they wont fail.

    14psi ish in a calorifier hose is next to nothing

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Volos-Athens
    Posts
    4,906

    Default Re: Isotemp unit drained for winter, shut off engine coolant feed ?

    hm, good thread to remind me to buy and install a calorifier in MiToS, managed four years without it although after a couple of hours engine use, water tanks which are part of the e/r lazarette bulkhead do heat up nicely.
    Mind, in 30+C ambient you don't really need hot water to have a shower, at least none has complained not even the ladies.

    what size element do you guys use? Probably going to buy a 100lt NON marine calorifier 2KW or more?

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