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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    Me in Cowes, boat in Quiberon
    Posts
    463

    Default A salutary "should have known better" note

    Whilst in Crouesty recently the Douane decided to swoop through the marina and arrived at my boat asking to see my paperwork. I produced my proof of ownership, home port and insurance details plus a copy of my SSR registration. "Mais Monsieur, nous devons voir l'original, une copie est inacceptable" came the stern reply followed by " pourquoi la copie d'enregistrement SSR dit 11,99 mètres et l'assurance dit 12,04 mètres ?" which to my chagrin I'd never noticed.
    I kept a copy of the SSR certificate onboard as my new original version was no longer encapsulated so I though it was best kept at home. Two things followed, I was fined 150 euros and then a week later had an invoice from Compagnie des portes du Morbihan for the difference between the up to 12M berthing fee and the next level up, promptly followed by two new Passport Escales cards reflecting the changes.

    My endorsed IRC cert says 11.99 M LOA which is where I took it from, builder says 12.04 M

    I should have known better

    Last edited by Lightwave395; 13-10-19 at 10:48.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Home UK Midlands / Boat Croatia
    Posts
    21,003

    Default Re: A salutary "should have known better" note

    I can understand the difference in LOA resulting in marina charges .... I suppose that is rough justice, but the fine for the SSR is worthy of Gestapo/Stassi tactics.

    My SSR is a copy which I have laminated myself. It is impossible to distinguish it from the original supplied by the MCA, or whoever it is who issues them (it's not important).

    If you contact the MCA and ask why the SSR is no longer laminated, they will tell you to get it laminated yourself.

    It seems that self-lamination is definitely the way forward.

    Richard

  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Cambridge, UK
    Posts
    6,202

    Default Re: A salutary "should have known better" note

    Quote Originally Posted by RichardS View Post
    I can understand the difference in LOA resulting in marina charges .... I suppose that is rough justice, but the fine for the SSR is worthy of Gestapo/Stassi tactics.

    My SSR is a copy which I have laminated myself. It is impossible to distinguish it from the original supplied by the MCA, or whoever it is who issues them (it's not important).

    If you contact the MCA and ask why the SSR is no longer laminated, they will tell you to get it laminated yourself.

    It seems that self-lamination is definitely the way forward.

    Richard
    There are documents that you must NOT encapsulate. British citizenship certificates, for one - my wife's came with a letter that emphasized that it would not be valid if it was encapsulated! I'd be wary of encapsulating a certificate, especially if it has security features like holograms.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Location
    Wales
    Posts
    993

    Default Re: A salutary "should have known better" note

    What you could do is is grab a zip lock bag and shove it in along with a piece of thick card behind it. That you get water proof and they can remove it for examination.
    Disclaimer: I am not an experienced sailor nor do I own a boat.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Location
    Mooring, Faro
    Posts
    1,837

    Default Re: A salutary "should have known better" note

    Quote Originally Posted by AntarcticPilot View Post
    There are documents that you must NOT encapsulate. British citizenship certificates, for one - my wife's came with a letter that emphasized that it would not be valid if it was encapsulated! I'd be wary of encapsulating a certificate, especially if it has security features like holograms.
    The Portuguese won't accept anything but originals in most cases. Met a guy up the Guadiana a few years ago whose boat had been impounded until he could produce his proper SSR certificate. He had copied the old one not yet quite expired and posted it for renewal. PM wouldn't accept the copy, he had to wait there for the new one to arrive.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Atlantic
    Posts
    21,587

    Default Re: A salutary "should have known better" note

    Quote Originally Posted by AntarcticPilot View Post
    There are documents that you must NOT encapsulate. British citizenship certificates, for one - my wife's came with a letter that emphasized that it would not be valid if it was encapsulated! I'd be wary of encapsulating a certificate, especially if it has security features like holograms.
    Indeed. My Spanish Residency card becomes illegal if laminated.

    But I will admit to not reading french so Im only guessing at what the OP had a problem with?

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Home UK Midlands / Boat Croatia
    Posts
    21,003

    Default Re: A salutary "should have known better" note

    Quote Originally Posted by AntarcticPilot View Post
    There are documents that you must NOT encapsulate. British citizenship certificates, for one - my wife's came with a letter that emphasized that it would not be valid if it was encapsulated! I'd be wary of encapsulating a certificate, especially if it has security features like holograms.
    But the issuing authority for the SSR tells you that it is fine to get it laminated, like it used to be.

    Richard

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Southampton
    Posts
    35,665

    Default Re: A salutary "should have known better" note

    Quote Originally Posted by capnsensible View Post
    But I will admit to not reading french so Im only guessing at what the OP had a problem with?
    I’m sure even a non French speaker can make a pretty sound guess at “une copie est inacceptable”

    My SSR is laminated; honestly can’t remember if it came that way or if I laminated it myself because they used to come that way. I haven’t laminated any other documents though - the “Ship’s Papers” live in a faux-leather folder with plastic sleeves for pages, the kind of thing you might find being used for a menu in a restaurant trying to seem fancier than it really is. That seems sufficient against any normal dampness I might expect to encounter below decks.

    Pete

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    East coast UK. Mostly. Sometimes the Philippines
    Posts
    10,081

    Default Re: A salutary "should have known better" note

    I happen to know that the decision to stop laminating British Certificates of Registration was taken purely as a cost saving measure by a Head of the UK Register (Doug Barrow) who is no longer in that post.

    I bought ‘Kukri’ from Her Majesty’s Government who in their infinite wisdom decided that her Register Length is 13.7 metres. It’s actually 16.7 metres. Those familiar with MCA regulations will spot the ‘dodge’ (to avoid fire extinguisher and safety equipment rules - which she complies with anyway) but I don’t look forward to trying to explain this and will be getting her measured anew...
    Last edited by Kukri; 13-10-19 at 11:40.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Plymouth
    Posts
    8,680

    Default Re: A salutary "should have known better" note

    Quote Originally Posted by Lightwave395 View Post
    Whilst in Crouesty recently the Douane decided to swoop through the marina and arrived at my boat asking to see my paperwork. I produced my proof of ownership, home port and insurance details plus a copy of my SSR registration. "Mais Monsieur, nous devons voir l'original, une copie est inacceptable" came the stern reply followed by " pourquoi la copie d'enregistrement SSR dit 11,99 mètres et l'assurance dit 12,04 mètres ?" which to my chagrin I'd never noticed.
    I kept a copy of the SSR certificate onboard as my new original version was no longer encapsulated so I though it was best kept at home. Two things followed, I was fined 150 euros and then a week later had an invoice from Compagnie des portes du Morbihan for the difference between the up to 12M berthing fee and the next level up, promptly followed by two new Passport Escales cards reflecting the changes.

    My endorsed IRC cert says 11.99 M LOA which is where I took it from, builder says 12.04 M

    I should have known better


    There have been cut-throat arguments on these pages with correspondents claiming that no documents at all were required for Europe and that fines were impossible, illegal or a figment of imagination.

    A lot of stuff, like insurance, is just a print out anyway, my company dish it out online.
    I was told that the one original document that should no be carried on board is the Bill of Sale, because it can not be replaced. Dunno if that makes sense.

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