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  1. #41
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
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    midlands
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    7,364

    Default Re: Fairline 43 Owners

    Quote Originally Posted by MapisM View Post
    J, my understanding of Assassin post was that he just wanted to point out that rejection can't materialize just upon buyer's decision, but requires some steps instead.
    Therefore, he couldn't fall in the trap that you highlighted even if wanted to, after reading a wrong suggestion from myself, VP or anyone else on a forum.
    Which stands to reason - hence my last para in post #22.
    The old marine industry is a law on its own in my opinion.

    You buy a new car or house , some of which can equate to the same kind of outlay , high end cars, low end boats etc.
    Your cars faulty , so you take it to the dealer , hand them the keys , pick up your loan car and wait for the call to say it’s sorted.
    You buy a new house , 10 year NHBC cover , unless the builder goes bust.

    You buy a boat , it’s a different story now I’d guess because a boat is built from many components from hundreds of manufacturers it can be a slightly longer process.
    Now my view on this is that we are talking production boats not bespoke boats where very little has gone into the build and design , surely this OP problem should be dealt with in reasonable time in a reasonable manner .

    I see the OP has not replied, let’s see.

  2. #42
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Live London
    Posts
    3,915

    Default Re: Fairline 43 Owners

    Quote Originally Posted by volvopaul View Post
    The old marine industry is a law on its own in my opinion.

    You buy a new car or house , some of which can equate to the same kind of outlay , high end cars, low end boats etc.
    Your cars faulty , so you take it to the dealer , hand them the keys , pick up your loan car and wait for the call to say itís sorted.
    You buy a new house , 10 year NHBC cover , unless the builder goes bust.

    You buy a boat , itís a different story now Iíd guess because a boat is built from many components from hundreds of manufacturers it can be a slightly longer process.
    Now my view on this is that we are talking production boats not bespoke boats where very little has gone into the build and design , surely this OP problem should be dealt with in reasonable time in a reasonable manner .

    I see the OP has not replied, letís see.
    I agree absolutely.

    It also goes further. If you get your car serviced there is a service schedule and it all gets done at once ( well maybe I am being optimistic).

    With a boat you say service it please.

    Does this include the generator? No you didn't ask me to do it.

    AC filters. No I am a mechanic. Call an AC company.

    carbon water filter change? Errrr what ?

    Whilst there will be exceptions the owner tends to be the integrator who tried to get all this done.

    I do huge amounts myself ( I tell myself between swearing I enjoy it). There are lots of small things that go together to make a decent season. All the small repairs - hinges, cupboard latches, lightbulbs etc , AC filters, winch cleaning ( bits of chain trick the chain counter), shower boxes, water filters, oiling teak tables etc etc etc the list goes on.

    Whilst it may happen I have never seen a marine company give me a 3 page tick list that says here is everything we can think of that might need doing to a motor boat, tick what you want us to do!

  3. #43
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    ation, Loc: ation, Loc: ation.
    Posts
    16,636

    Default Re: Fairline 43 Owners

    Boat owners like to sell a dream and in some ways that's what buyers of new boats should receive.

    But we all now, that boating is like the wild west. There's no mandatory licensing, mandatory training, mandatory insurance, no speed limits, no drink driving restrictions. And there's no MOT, no formal recall process that manufacturers have to follow or declaration when a boat is written off.

    Boat ownership isn't just about boating. You need to be prepared to get your hands dirty or at least have the nouse to employ people that you can trust to keep the thing going.

    I say to my colleagues and friends that owning a boat is like owing a classic sporstcar that has two engines plus domestic electrical and heating systems with the added complication of the sea and elements that are constantly trying to destroy the thing.

  4. #44
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Posts
    17,757

    Default Re: Fairline 43 Owners

    Quote Originally Posted by petem View Post
    I say to my colleagues and friends that owning a boat is like owing a classic sporstcar that has two engines plus domestic electrical and heating systems with the added complication of the sea and elements that are constantly trying to destroy the thing.
    My usual comparison is just about the other way round.
    A good friend of ours is the owner of the lovely house below, which is as close to a boat as a house can get.
    In fact, the upper/left side of the pic points NW, hence it's exposed to Mistral, with a fetch of 300Nm or so, right up to the Gulf de Lyon.
    During winter storms, she literally has sea water above the roof.
    When she complains that the maintenance of her house is akin to a boat, I tell her that in order to make the comparison meaningful, she should think of lifting the thing, fitting engines inside it, and drop it directly in the sea - all year round.

  5. #45
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    Jersey/Antibes
    Posts
    22,688

    Default Re: Fairline 43 Owners

    Quote Originally Posted by MapisM View Post
    J, my understanding of Assassin post was that he just wanted to point out that rejection can't materialize just upon buyer's decision, but requires some steps instead.
    Therefore, he couldn't fall in the trap that you highlighted even if wanted to, after reading a wrong suggestion from myself, VP or anyone else on a forum.
    Which stands to reason - hence my last para in post #22.
    Mapism, I don't want to write pages of legal detail that bores people and I'll therefore shut up as soon as asked, but in brief the above is completely wrong. Rejection is a unilateral process. To use your words, it materializes just on the buyer's decision. It requires only something simple like an email from buyer saying in effect that he/she rejects the boat or words to that effect.

    Let me give a simple but plausible example of how OP could fall in the trap that I'm warning him and anyone else to be ver careful of, contrary to your advice:

    Imagine the boat dealership is a tiny company. Has 4 stock boats financed ~100% by mortgage loans, a rented office at the marina, and has made small losses for 5 years, and it owes £400k as a loan to its shareholder and CEO, who put £200k of money in out of his savings as start up capital and has not drawn £200k of his salary due to poor performance of the business. The boat dealership isn't great, and the dealer guy would be better shutting the business and taking a regular job as an employee somewhere else. However, he will lose his £400k if he does that.

    Now OP comes along and rejects his £600k boat. Boss guy could argue the rejection is invalid, but why would be? Boss guy logically decides to throw in the towel and put company into liquidation. The 4 stock boats are repossessed by finance co, so the company owns just OP's boat, and has money debts owing of £600k to OP and £400k to dealer boss guy. Let's say the stock boat is auction sold at £400k. Liquidator will give £240k to OP and £160k to dealer principal/boss guy. OP not happy, and now realises he was dumb to have rejected his boat

    All I've ever said in this thread is be very careful to understand the consequences before rejecting a high value item bought from a low value seller (which kinda defines a lot of the boat dealership world). I've said enough I hope, so I'll stand back and let you and Assassin argue the opposite if you wish - I don't mind.

  6. #46
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Posts
    17,757

    Default Re: Fairline 43 Owners

    Quote Originally Posted by jfm View Post
    I've said enough I hope, so I'll stand back and let you and Assassin argue the opposite if you wish - I don't mind.
    Thanks J, got it loud and clear, but I wasn't arguing the opposite, fwiw.
    I already backpedalled my initial comment right after you explained how rejection works in UK law, and my last post was just out of curiosity, since I saw the buyer-triggered rejection regardless of whether the seller has anything to say about that or not a bit strange.
    Anyhow, if that's how it works, that's how it works.
    Good to know also for others who were unaware of it, I suppose.

    As an aside, I'm now hoping that henryf is not reading this thread, because I'm thinking that the next time I'll come to the UK, instead of renting a boring car, I could as well buy a GT3 from him, and then reject it right before flying back home.
    Since for all I know he's a reliable guy, I shouldn't be too concerned about my credit towards him...

  7. #47
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    Jersey/Antibes
    Posts
    22,688

    Default Re: Fairline 43 Owners

    Quote Originally Posted by MapisM View Post

    As an aside, I'm now hoping that henryf is not reading this thread, because I'm thinking that the next time I'll come to the UK, instead of renting a boring car, I could as well buy a GT3 from him, and then reject it right before flying back home.
    Since for all I know he's a reliable guy, I shouldn't be too concerned about my credit towards him...
    A particularly good idea, because Henri's business is 5 minutes from LHR
    Unfortunately, there are special rules in the "rejection law" when you reject a car. Henryf might do better out of the deal than you're expecting. You might be better sticking with Hertz

  8. #48
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Posts
    17,757

    Default Re: Fairline 43 Owners

    There goes my hope to have found a glitch in the matrix.
    Oh, well. After all I might get a GT3 anyway, if he has a good one.
    Possibly a LHD one, which he's desperate to give away for a song...

  9. #49
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    South of France.
    Posts
    4,172

    Default Re: Fairline 43 Owners

    Having come on here with a damning complaint about a very expensive boat and then disappearing I would suggest the OP is probably so sad and lonely that he enjoys trolling people on forums ... or maybe he works for Princess or Sunseeker!
    _______________________

  10. #50
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Boat- Western Med
    Posts
    5,441

    Default Re: Fairline 43 Owners

    Quote Originally Posted by MapisM View Post
    There goes my hope to have found a glitch in the matrix.
    Oh, well. After all I might get a GT3 anyway, if he has a good one.
    Possibly a LHD one, which he's desperate to give away for a song...
    I,d be looking closer to home for a sporty car if I was you .
    Try wondering about in Modena if that fails Sant Agata .
    You make decent sports cars as well as boats

    Donít give Mrs Merkel more excuses to lend more ÄÄÄ , s to your Gov
    Last edited by Portofino; 04-11-19 at 16:03.

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