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  1. #91
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Posts
    12,967

    Default Re: P'd off with Princess.

    I've read this thread - 90+ posts - and I'm puzzled. There's an issue inasmuch as the pass. didn't work as expected and damage has been caused to the platform. OTOH we know that the hydraulic ram is up to the task. So, all that is needed is to get the load calculations done and have the platform rebuilt with appropriate reinforcement.

    It seems to me to be a waste of time (literally) to speculate on what the builder did or didn't do or specify or, indeed, what an aftermarket fitter may or may not have done 10 years ago because the chances of redress are vanishingly slim and one thing that this thread does show is that it would be really very difficult to prove who did what and on what basis back in the day.

    Unbuckle the $10k (or whatever) to get the work done and enjoy the boat with its new and functional crane, would be my advice. But feel free to ignore. ATB.

  2. #92
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Uxbridge
    Posts
    3,817

    Default Re: P'd off with Princess.

    Right then.....

    Sorry for the delay in responding. Only just popped down the boat and I had to remove the back walls of the crew cabin to access the necessary areas.

    I think there is some additional reinforcement and webs on a factory install.

    The back of the “hinge” where the walking part of the pass meets the boat.



    The lower leg where it meets the boat. Mounted to vertical transom wall and bathing platform



    The underside of the bathing platform



    The area where the lower leg meets the vertical transom wall. Note there are large webs either side of the pass as well as the smaller webs where the hinge part of the pass meets the top of the transom wall



    The net result is a plate rating of 320kg.



    I’m sorry if the photos don’t show stuff very well. Taken on my phone in a bit of a rush. Just popped down to move the boat back onto our newly dredged berth.

    Henry

    Edited to say the owners handbook just provides some basic tips. Wash it down every time you go out on the boat....
    Last edited by henryf; 07-11-19 at 13:38.

  3. #93
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    110

    Default Re: P'd off with Princess.

    Thanks Henryf and everyone else who has replied to the thread.

    Comparison between Henryf's installation and mine:-

    -I don't have a crew cabin so slightly less structure in that area
    -I have the exact same aluminium bracket holding the hinge part of the passerelle.
    -I have exactly the same fibreglass shear webs extending down the transom.
    -My ram foot mount does not extend up the transom on the outside.
    -I have what looks like reinforcement under the ram foot but maybe not to the same extent as Henryf's.
    -Having just replaced the teak with marine deck which is a cork mat type of product as opposed to teak planks maybe there is a little less structural strength?

    Apart from that the installations appear to be very similar..

    Fellow forum-ite Jimmy the Builder very kindly offered to contact Princess UK on my behalf. Huge thanks to Jimmy for this.

    Although I had had a reply from the Australian Princess service manager the information that Jimmy provided was new to me. His contact Pete Harwood stated that (as many here had suggested) that because the passerelle was not fitted at the factory the additional reinforcement to lift a tender was not fitted.

    Two things; firstly I'll have to take him at his word that the reinforcement on my boat is not functionally similar to Henryf's. It looks similar but clearly it is not. Secondly, it would appear that there are different specifications available from the factory in this regard. This is not what I was told.

    In fairness to Princess it doesn't seem to be their issue however, in my defence I would have to say that if I had been told this on my initial enquiries and been given some assistance as to how to solve the issue maybe I would have been a little less p'd off... Anyhoo..

    From what I can see of Henryf's install I think I'll instruct my engineers to first re glass and level the underside of the swim platform in the area under the ram foot and then construct an aluminium bracket tying the top aluminium mount to the underside of the swim platform. I'll let you all know how I get on..

    Many thanks again.

    James.

  4. #94
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Posts
    31

    Default Re: P'd off with Princess.

    Quote Originally Posted by benjenbav View Post
    I've read this thread - 90+ posts - and I'm puzzled. There's an issue inasmuch as the pass. didn't work as expected and damage has been caused to the platform. OTOH we know that the hydraulic ram is up to the task. So, all that is needed is to get the load calculations done and have the platform rebuilt with appropriate reinforcement.

    It seems to me to be a waste of time (literally) to speculate on what the builder did or didn't do or specify or, indeed, what an aftermarket fitter may or may not have done 10 years ago because the chances of redress are vanishingly slim and one thing that this thread does show is that it would be really very difficult to prove who did what and on what basis back in the day.

    Unbuckle the $10k (or whatever) to get the work done and enjoy the boat with its new and functional crane, would be my advice. But feel free to ignore. ATB.
    waste of time... but you "read this thread -90+ posts" (!!!), ...maybe not so uninteresting...

  5. #95
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Posts
    17,757

    Default Re: P'd off with Princess.

    Quote Originally Posted by J12345T View Post
    From what I can see of Henryf's install I think I'll instruct my engineers to first re glass and level the underside of the swim platform in the area under the ram foot and then construct an aluminium bracket tying the top aluminium mount to the underside of the swim platform.
    Good idea, but I would also ask Princess if the external ram foot mount that henryf has on his boat is available as a spare part, and if not I'd try to have one built by a fabricator - maybe also a bit larger than the original one.
    This way, the transom becomes concurrent in supporting the load, rather than have it 100% vertically charged on the swim platform surface.

    In fact, as I envisaged in first para of my post #78, I am not surprised to read now that this difference between your and henryf's boat is confirmed.
    Imho, the load distribution with the mount fixed also to the transom can change a lot, also due to the geometry/angles at which the cylinder works.

  6. #96
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Posts
    12,967

    Default Re: P'd off with Princess.

    Quote Originally Posted by Orthop View Post
    waste of time... but you "read this thread -90+ posts" (!!!), ...maybe not so uninteresting...
    Interesting: for sure. Just gently trying to suggest to the OP that, imho, he would be better getting a fix in rather than speculating on who did what to whom in the ancient past.

  7. #97
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    110

    Default Re: P'd off with Princess.

    Quote Originally Posted by benjenbav View Post
    Interesting: for sure. Just gently trying to suggest to the OP that, imho, he would be better getting a fix in rather than speculating on who did what to whom in the ancient past.
    Thanks for your input Benjenbav,

    You need to appreciate that in order to achieve a suitable fix I needed to investigate the problem and to find out how others with similar boats had solved it. In posting here I have achieved exactly that through the knowledge and kindness of fellow boat owners.

    So thanks for your suggestion however, I'm afraid this was all part of the process.

    Cheers.

    James.

  8. #98
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    Conwy
    Posts
    4,235

    Default Re: P'd off with Princess.

    James, the one thing that has bothered me throughout this thread is why it only happened now after 10 years. Was this the first time the passarel was used as a crane for your tender or any other tender of comparable weight?
    I cant help but think that given the time lapse that there is a additional factor that has caused the failure. Somebody mentioned that if the passarel was too low to the dock and there was a passing wake there may have been some structural weakening..... ? Whatever the reason for it to survive 10 years and to now suddenly fail points to a contributing element. Or have I misunderstood something along the way?

  9. #99
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Sant Carles de la Ràpita
    Posts
    7,071

    Default Re: P'd off with Princess.

    Quote Originally Posted by BruceK View Post
    James, the one thing that has bothered me throughout this thread is why it only happened now after 10 years. Was this the first time the passarel was used as a crane for your tender or any other tender of comparable weight?
    I cant help but think that given the time lapse that there is a additional factor that has caused the failure. Somebody mentioned that if the passarel was too low to the dock and there was a passing wake there may have been some structural weakening..... ? Whatever the reason for it to survive 10 years and to now suddenly fail points to a contributing element. Or have I misunderstood something along the way?
    I think the answer to your question is that he has only just had synthetic teak installed.
    Well, I think he said Marine Deck - I think that is the "cork style" decking like the Marine Deck 2000 that I have on my Novurania dinghy.
    Two years ago, I replaced our wood teak on our bathing platform with Flexiteek
    The big bathing platform hatch was always very flimsy before our change to synthetic teak.
    But after installing the synthetic teak, it was far too flexible so I had to remove it, strengthen the hatch and re-install.
    All fixed now but it shows that the wood teak "adds to" the strength.
    In my case, the hatch was always flexing but more so with the synthetic teak.
    In James' case, he opted for an even more flexible cork based teak style than the Flexiteek that I installed.
    I think this is why his passerelle issue has only just come to light.

  10. #100
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    Conwy
    Posts
    4,235

    Default Re: P'd off with Princess.

    Ah, thanks for clearing that up.

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