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Thread: Who's to blame?

  1. #11
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
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    Med
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    6,271

    Default Re: Who's to blame?

    This is the type I would be looking at buying .
    https://www.nautimarketshop.com/shop...000kg-01028644

    And not these type .
    https://www.nautimarketshop.com/shop...-Code-01028671
    Warning forumite dyslexia near by
    www.bluewatersailorcroatia.webs.com

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
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    Emsworth Hants
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    12,685

    Default Re: Who's to blame?

    >We believe by keeping all the lines tight that any snatching is minimal

    Not a good idea in a strong a wind the lines need to stretch, also if a strong wind is forecast we would double up the lines. Do you know if anyone did that?

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
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    Home - Sothampton, Boat - Gosport
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    Default Re: Who's to blame?

    It sounds as though you made the right decision to stay on board. I took a similar decision when exceptional winds were forecast a few years ago. Jissel normally lives on a drying mooring, but I decided that the club pontoon was a safer bet, so I parked , doubled up my lines and retired below, thinking I'd be able to do my good deed for the day by checking on the several other boats on the pontoon. I was fortunate in that I was close to the shore, so the fetch was minimal. I went onto the pontoon as things really started to hot up to add an extra bow line, and thought about going down the pontoon to check the other boats, but quickly decided that, the way the pontoon was leaping around, I had a pretty good chance of ending up swimming. I decided that a live coward was far more use to Milady than a dead hero, no, make that idiot, so the other boats had to look after themselves.

    As for who pays, I guess it depends on what exceptional weather conditions really are. I expect the marina's insurers would say anything over [cynic] a good F6 [/cynic]; my definition would be a hundred year storm, whatever that is for the area. For the Solent, that would mean gusts well in excess of 100 knots at the Needles, as 100 knots there seems to happen every 5 years or so. Of course, with climate change, 100 year storms seem to be happening pretty regularly these days
    Steve
    Never believe anything until it has been officially denied.

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Solent
    Posts
    3,616

    Default Re: Who's to blame?

    My boat (old livery) on a Brixham YC pontoon in the outer harbour in a strong and very uncomfortable northerly in 2010:

    short video of springs snatching

    Nothing like the OP's situation but snatchy enough - and foolish me for not checking the forecast the night before!

    I'd add that the old Bukh had vomited almost all its oil through the front-seal when motorsailing across a roughish Lyme Bay the day before (I knew how much it had puked because I kept having to fill up from a spare 5litre supply!). Oil then coated the deep and shallow bilges and both sides of the engine-bay plywood, plus contaminated the flexible water tanks... all of which made me very sick sleeping aboard.
    Last edited by Babylon; 14-11-19 at 10:44.
    Plan B...?

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
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    Gone cruising
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    2,428

    Default Re: Who's to blame?

    We're the other lucky boat in the same marina. Haven't got time to tell the whole tale (much cleaning up, repairs, and looking after our friends boats going on, not helped by the rain showers, but at least it's calm now). Will make a blog post of it eventually.

    For mooring compensators, I did a quick survey, as we had plenty of opportunity to compare how they did. The rubber things do work, but they don't last more than a season or two (we finished ours off last winter). The cheaper steel springs mostly failed - the spring simply broke or stayed compressed. The electroplated (very cheap) ones seemed quite useless, some of the beefier galvanized or stainless ones survived, but often just one out of a pair. They're also quite screechy!

    The big honking "silent" ones did very well. All of them survived and kept working. They are very expensive though. I think the first design was Douglas marine and there's an Italian company named Sidermarine who make very similar looking ones. They're very good quality and silent as there's a brass sleeve around the sliders. I've just bought a pair plus some thimbles and a bit of rope for €270. This kind: https://forboat.eu/docking-and-moori...000kg-for-boat

    We survived without absorbers (we have nice nylon cored mooring lines, which did the stretching), but snapped off two of the chocolate pontoon cleats and the boat is only still there because I was out on the bouncing pontoon with waves breaking over me and rigging lines across to the other side until they told us to get off the pontoon. One of our lines broke in the night, not sure from what as I can't find the other end, and one was nearly chafed through, but they were both older and smaller lines. Our neighbour boat went with a bang and then caught its rudder in one of our lazylines, so I had to cut it free and rig a diagonal line from our stern across the now empty berth.

    Agree with Vic that boats should be strapped in tight. The surging back and forth of the boats creates horrible shockloads that tore off the cleats on either side. I put a rolling hitch on the lazylines and winched them in before re-cleating them tight (before the storm). On some sections the ground chain that those lazylines are attached to moved also, probably a few of the anchor points broke.

    They were right to evacuate people by the way, they've had the planks up this morning and the steel frame of the first pontoon section is broken through all the way on one side and a third on the other. An I-beam 25x10 cm big cracked right through. The waves were funneling into that corner and the pontoon was bouncing around like a bucking bronco.

    Marina staff was very good and are still sorting out things everywhere with little sleep between. I hear they made a big order for larger pontoon cleats.

    Back to work!

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
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    SW Scotland
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    19,759

    Default Re: Who's to blame?

    Quote Originally Posted by TC Tuckton View Post
    Thank you for a good description of the value of tight lines to a pontoon in a blow.
    I think it depends very much on the nature of the blow and the type and extent of shelter. I hid from a nasty one at Sound of Ulva over the summer and was advised by the harbourmaster to sit back on two stern springs with loose bow lines. It worked very nicely indeed, and we had as comfortable at time as we might have hoped for. In that case, however, we had significant waves coming through, with the bows moving up and down by two feet or more each way. Had we been up against strong winds and little by way of waves I'd have tightened everything up.
    "Seamen are always wanting to do things the proper way; and I like to do them my way."

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Home - Sothampton, Boat - Gosport
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    10,671

    Default Re: Who's to blame?

    There's no argument over the benefits of taut lines in a blow, but watch out on a drying pontoon! I've seen lines tight enough to play a tune on where people haven't allowed for the pontoon dropping further than their boat.

    Also watch out when moored to a harbour wall - I've never actually seen a boat left dangling from its lines, but I have seen a few come close.
    Steve
    Never believe anything until it has been officially denied.

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Isle of Lewis
    Posts
    539

    Default Re: Who's to blame?

    I would be cautious of staying on board in a real blow. A colleague of mine had a boat in a marina here when a storm came through with winds gusting to 100mph in the town. A couple of finger pontoons sheered off and his boat broke free. I went down when it happened at about 10pm to see pontoons bucking like broncos, the tidal surge over the quayside, the local lifeboat crew dressed and ready and yachts heeling over lee rail under. There was nothing I could do so went home avoiding flying bins and slates thinking that only the top of the mast would be above water. Thankfully no one was hurt and all damage was fixable and yes the boat was still floating the next day

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    South Coast
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    14,180

    Default Re: Who's to blame?

    I would have thought that the Marina would have had to be able to show that it had done everything reasonably possible to prevent damage occurring, or that you would have to show they hadn't, depending on who's bringing litigation. It's bound to get even more complicated if you were damaged as a result of another boat breaking free as there's now three parties involved.

  10. #20
    Join Date
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    Med
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    6,271

    Default Re: Who's to blame?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stemar View Post
    There's no argument over the benefits of taut lines in a blow, but watch out on a drying pontoon! I've seen lines tight enough to play a tune on where people haven't allowed for the pontoon dropping further than their boat.

    Also watch out when moored to a harbour wall - I've never actually seen a boat left dangling from its lines, but I have seen a few come close.
    Ofcause it goes without saying you don't have right mooring line to a harbour wall especially when there any rise and fall,
    And one would expect every sailor to know this but there been time when we have seen boats hanging by their lines.
    Warning forumite dyslexia near by
    www.bluewatersailorcroatia.webs.com

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