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  1. #31
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Location
    Bewdley, Worcs
    Posts
    602

    Default Re: Volvo penta oil query

    Quote Originally Posted by vyv_cox View Post
    If you look at the catalogues of any major oil producer you will see that they produce a huge range, some first introduced many years ago. For example, it is not all that long since Shell discontinued API CA for one specific engine. If later versions are superior and totally interchangeable why would they continue to make them? There are no extra profits in small batches, just the opposite.
    VDS4.5 is backwards compatible with VDS4 and VDS3

    VDS4 is backwards compatible with VDS3

    It's all over Volvo's marketing stuff for the oil spec, eg:

    If you haven’t made the move to Volvo VDS-4.5 Engine Oil yet, there’s no better time than the present. Not only is this leading-edge oil – first introduced in 2016 – our factory fill, but it’s also growing in popularity throughout the aftermarket. Here are a few reasons why.

    Compared to older American Petroleum Institute (API) CJ-4 engine oils, Volvo VDS-4.5 delivers:

    20 percent better wear protection
    50 percent higher oxidation resistance
    80 percent better high-temperature viscosity control
    Better oxidation resistance? I'll take that, and that is VDS4.5 to VDS4, ... compared ot VDS3 it will be even better.

    Volvo VDS-4.5 is backward compatible, which means it can be introduced as a direct replacement wherever VDS-4.0 or API CJ-4 oils are used.
    Etc etc ... why would you want to use a lower performance oil? I guess if I was selling engine parts and new engines, I'd probably be happy to see you use the lower grade stuff.

  2. #32
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Farndon
    Posts
    3,165

    Default Re: Volvo penta oil query

    Vds4.5 is backwards compatible with vds4.
    But where does it say it it backwards compatible with vds3?

  3. #33
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Location
    Bewdley, Worcs
    Posts
    602

    Default Re: Volvo penta oil query

    If you dig through, you will find that you can use a VDS4 wherever you can use a VDS 3 ... ad note is says "wherever VDS-4.0 or API CJ-4 oils are used. " not "wherever VDS-4.0 or API CJ-4 oils are specified" .. hence if you are using a VDS 4, in place of a VDS 3, there is no reason not to use a VDS4.5

    Same applies to the CG - CH -CI -CJ - CK series ... read the spec, they explicitly state they are backwards compatible ...

  4. #34
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Farndon
    Posts
    3,165

    Default Re: Volvo penta oil query

    Quote Originally Posted by rszemeti View Post
    If you dig through, you will find that you can use a VDS4 wherever you can use a VDS 3 ... ...
    You now seem less certain .
    Lets be clear. VP don't recommend using vds4 instead of vds3.
    But they may imply somewhere the later oil may be used.
    I will stick with vds3.

  5. #35
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Location
    Bewdley, Worcs
    Posts
    602

    Default Re: Volvo penta oil query

    Quote Originally Posted by MartynG View Post
    You now seem less certain .
    Lets be clear. VP don't recommend using vds4 instead of vds3.
    But they may imply somewhere the later oil may be used.
    I will stick with vds3.
    You do that, I'll be using the good stuff

  6. #36
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    501

    Default Re: Volvo penta oil query

    Keypart now sell VDS 4.5 as the recommended oil for my Volvo D1-30B. It used to be VDS 3.
    Last edited by Ian_Rob; 19-11-19 at 00:58.

  7. #37
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    North Wales, sailing Aegean Sea or Menai Strait
    Posts
    22,133

    Default Re: Volvo penta oil query

    Quote Originally Posted by rszemeti View Post
    If you dig through, you will find that you can use a VDS4 wherever you can use a VDS 3 ... ad note is says "wherever VDS-4.0 or API CJ-4 oils are used. " not "wherever VDS-4.0 or API CJ-4 oils are specified" .. hence if you are using a VDS 4, in place of a VDS 3, there is no reason not to use a VDS4.5

    Same applies to the CG - CH -CI -CJ - CK series ... read the spec, they explicitly state they are backwards compatible ...
    I believe you are making the same mistake that many others have made before you. Boats are not cars and their engine requirements are very different. What is the value of better oxidation resistance in an oil that is used to chug the boat out of the marina and then switched off to go sailing? Oxidation resistance is required in automobiles whose oil temperature runs at over 90C for hours on end. When is your boat engine going to do that?

    For years Volvo have promoted the 'one size fits all' advice for oils. Personally I do not believe that the same oil selected for a turbocharged car blasting up and down the motorway will do equally well in a single cylinder marine auxiliary engine. Fair enough if you do, buy an oil with a high TBN and see what happens.
    Answers to some technical queries at new website http://coxeng.co.uk

  8. #38
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Location
    Bewdley, Worcs
    Posts
    602

    Default Re: Volvo penta oil query

    It's not just oxidation control:

    20 percent better wear protection
    50 percent higher oxidation resistance
    80 percent better high-temperature viscosity control
    Why would you not want better wear protection?

    You have shown me no evidence whatsoever to suggest that Volvo Penta would not have specified a VDS 4 or 4.5 oil had one been available when the engine was made, and nothing to suggest a reason not to use the higher performing oil. In particular, the improved chemical stability of the later oils, lower moisture absorbtion, reduced acidification would all be beneficial in a marine enviroment. I'm happy with my decision to follow their advice.

  9. #39
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    North Wales, sailing Aegean Sea or Menai Strait
    Posts
    22,133

    Default Re: Volvo penta oil query

    Quote Originally Posted by rszemeti View Post
    In particular, the improved chemical stability of the later oils, lower moisture absorbtion, reduced acidification would all be beneficial in a marine enviroment.
    Improved chemical stability is a high temperature property, not applicable in a yacht auxiliary. Lower moisture absorption simply means that the water will instead be free in the sump. Unless you have some means of draining it off there is little benefit. Reduced acidification means higher TBN or a different technology, desirable in a hot engine but can lead to increased bore wear in a cool running engine.

    There are good reasons why oil manufacturers design oils for different duties.
    Answers to some technical queries at new website http://coxeng.co.uk

  10. #40
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Location
    Bewdley, Worcs
    Posts
    602

    Default Re: Volvo penta oil query

    Quote Originally Posted by vyv_cox View Post
    Improved chemical stability is a high temperature property, not applicable in a yacht auxiliary. Lower moisture absorption simply means that the water will instead be free in the sump. Unless you have some means of draining it off there is little benefit. Reduced acidification means higher TBN or a different technology, desirable in a hot engine but can lead to increased bore wear in a cool running engine.

    There are good reasons why oil manufacturers design oils for different duties.
    Acidification is a particular problem for engines that spend a long time idle. It causes problems in the aeronautical world where planes stand for extended periods of non use, resultign in internal corrosion. I'd rather not have that particular problem in my engine. I find your argument that oil has not improved in the last 30 years amusing, but unconvincing. If Volvo claim their later oil specifications are backwards compatible, better specified and recommend their use, thats good enough for me, but feel free to continue using the old stuff if you want to, no skin off my nose.

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