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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    Brecon, Wales
    Posts
    7,165

    Default Re: Does Red Diesel Issue = Rapid Diesel Vessel Depreciation

    I agree with your points about displacment boats.

    The red issue was one factor in me getting out of planing boats and in my case into a semi-displacement boat.... a sort of half way house that is still much more efficient at diplsacemant speeds.
    Paul
    St Francis 50 Cat
    My Multihull Forum

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Newton Abbot, Devon, UK
    Posts
    431

    Default Re: Does Red Diesel Issue = Rapid Diesel Vessel Depreciation

    You make a very good point there. It is one I have also made on several threads. When it is possible to buy a KAD32 for about 10K (and it is if you know where to look!) drop it into a 24ft petrol mobo that you have bought for 8K less than the equivalent diesel boat with a tired , used motor, it all starts to stack up. You have paid not much more for the boat than you would have paid for the diesel boat in the first place but you have a brand new motor too with hopefully a good few years reliable life.

    The point about petrol reliability is a strange one. Why should a petrol on a boat be less reliable than one in a car and we don't worry about them. A well maintained and serviced petrol should be no less reliable than a diesel. Agreed a petrol has electrics to look after too and this is generally the weakest link so pay a bit more attention to them and you will have no trouble.

    Alternatively, if you don't plan lots of long distance cruising, buy the petrol, put the 8K in your pocket as fuel money for the next few years and just go out and have fun.

    Petrol is no more dangerous and a diesel boat fitted with a LPG cylinder....both will go bang big time if you do something silly or fail to take the right precautions.

    There are a load of petrol mobo's in the US and they are the norm not the exception....they can't all be wrong!

    Has to be your decision but whatever it is, enjoy it.

    Good luck

    JH [img]/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    9

    Default Re: Does Red Diesel Issue = Rapid Diesel Vessel Depreciation

    Well thatís it then, news on the radio today On ĎRED Dieselí say that the new EU taxation laws are to go ahead which could see RED Diesel triple in price by next year.

    All that remains now is to see the industry go in to a decline and wait for Diesel vesselís to drop in price sometime between now and next year and a probable collapse of the boating leisure industry all together, sorry guyís a bit doom and gloom, Iíll try and see the sunny side later.
    Sounds like even with the extra cruising distance you get with Diesel that it will be cancelled out anyway as it will be more expensive than Petrol and as for the reliability factor associated with diesel engines; surely thatís all down to preventative maintenance anyway whether itís Petrol or Diesel.
    This just leaves only one reason to buy a Diesel and that is because itís easier to find outlets than it is for Petrol, although this only seems to apply to certain areas such as the West Country UK or France and places like that.

    Shame the South Coast Blood Sucking Marinaís who like to squeeze every penny they can out of us, couldnít come up with some sort of fuel subsidy idea for annual residents, instead they over charge on fuel as well, I expect they will charge for using the toilets next.

    Something I just donít understand at the moment,, why donít the South coast Marinaís get any bad press over there blatant over charging on everything, is it just me that thinks annual 4k to 5k for a 28 ft vessel is a little high. I suppose if us mugs are going to pay it then they will charge it.

    Well, thatís my whinge for today. Lifeís a bitch and then you go sailing.

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    2,025

    Default Re: Does Red Diesel Issue = Rapid Diesel Vessel Depreciation

    Hi Phil

    IMHO you would be better off if you delay your purchase until the derogation of diesel was in operation. I suspect your hypothesis that, the price of traditionally ďaffordableĒ Powerboats will be greatly hit, will be true, of course the high end of the market will be unaffected Ė charge anything you like for fuel those owners will pay it. The future may see a shift towards semi displacement and displacement hulls which are more fuel efficient (affordable), leading to an even greater depreciation of the current designs. But these market developments will take a few years to kick in ĖIF they happen at all.

    I think of the boat market (in this context) it in terms of the betamax video system, ďit may be good but no-one wants oneĒ, I fear that in a few years the types of boat you describe will fit this model.

    Have a look at the BMF website, the industry is certainly bracing itself for a huge drop in demand Ė which of course will translate to lower prices.

    Cheers


    David

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    Brecon, Wales
    Posts
    7,165

    Default Re: Does Red Diesel Issue = Rapid Diesel Vessel Depreciation

    That was talking a lot of sense.

    I have already switched over to an SD hull because at least that offers me comfortable cruising at lower speeds. I can choose to go there at 25knots and pay a lot - or choose to do it at 10 knots and pay three times less than I do now. I think there will be a move towards SD and D hulls as well as some mopving towards sail - however, many may be stuck with a big loss on their hands.

    "charge anything you like for fuel those owners will pay it. "

    Only some are like that by no means all - I know very wealthy people who will not pay it if derg happaens, plan to move their boats overseas.

    It easier for larger boat owners to sell in the Med market place than it is for the smaller boats.
    Paul
    St Francis 50 Cat
    My Multihull Forum

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    9

    Default Re: Does Red Diesel Issue = Rapid Diesel Vessel Depreciation

    Hi Dave

    Whether I wait for the derogation of red diesel or not all fuels,, Petrol, Diesel and even LPG are on a rapid increase, not helped much by the greedy marinaís over charging which can be seen looking at other threads.
    I also notice that some marinaís offer 10% discount when buying over 500ltrís which again is not much use to the smaller vessels which generally donít hold a tank that size.
    This fuels your idea that the higher end of the market wonít be that bothered especially as a large percentage probably have it registered as a company asset and the running costs down as corporate entertainment.

    Whichever way you look at it, a mobo is an expensive toy and the irregular sales prices I've seen makes me feel that if I make a purchase that Iíll be stuck with it. In the 4 monthís Iíve been looking nearly all the same moboís are still for sale.

    With that in mind, Iíve decided that I just canít wait around for a couple years while the market settles, so the MOBO is on hold for now while I look at some semi displacement and displacement vessels.
    Iíve also booked a 2 week sailing course in October to see how I get on.
    Iím not saying the SD/D market is any more stable but at least I donít have that feeling Iím throwing 10k in the ocean.

    Phil

  7. #27
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Posts
    529

    Default Re: Does Red Diesel Issue = Rapid Diesel Vessel Depreciation

    I sold my last boat in six weeks, took two years to sell the house......

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    9

    Default Re: Does Red Diesel Issue = Rapid Diesel Vessel Depreciation

    Thatís not really much of a statement without any details..

  9. #29
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Posts
    529

    Default Re: Does Red Diesel Issue = Rapid Diesel Vessel Depreciation

    I was merely trying to point out that people keep saying how hard it is to sell boats because of the red diesel issue andf I don't think it is.

    I know of a couple who have recently bought a large sports cruiser with twin MAN engines that does over 40 knots. They are not the slightest bit concerned over the red diesel issue and I doubt they're alone.

    Don't forget we've been through all of this before and I didn't see any problems then with selling boats, the brokers I bought my boat from then were doing a roaring trade.

    Personally I think the whole red diesel issue has been totally mis-handled. It should have been tackled on the basis of the taxation of white diesel and how unfair that is. After all we have the cheapest white diesel in the EU until tax is added.....

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    Brecon, Wales
    Posts
    7,165

    Default Re: Does Red Diesel Issue = Rapid Diesel Vessel Depreciation

    I could not disagree more - the chances of the boating lobby having any say whatsoever on wihite diesel is zero .. the only way the government will back down on white is to hold back a tiny bit after a massive wide spread public protest - one is about to happen.

    The trade is generally reporting sluggish trade and the question of dereg on diesel is a factor in that. You cannot calim that a price rise of 2 or three times would have no effect on the market ... it would have a major effect.
    Paul
    St Francis 50 Cat
    My Multihull Forum

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