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  1. #31
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Somewhere in the Med!
    Posts
    2,619

    Default Re: Does Red Diesel Issue = Rapid Diesel Vessel Depreciation


    Lets face it if the government get their own way over diesel prices, All vessels will fall in prices! the reason of course is simple, there will be a huge amount of vessels for sale. Market forces dictate that prices must then fall! Too many sellers and not enough buyers = Lower prices!

    Barry

  2. #32
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Posts
    529

    Default Re: Does Red Diesel Issue = Rapid Diesel Vessel Depreciation

    Let's see what the Southampton boat show figures show.

    If people were really concerned about it why are Barclays reporting record levels of marine mortgages? Nearly all of which are for motorboats.

    At least the white diesel tax issue would make sense to Joe public. Cheap red diesel for massive gin palaces is totally indefensable to them.

  3. #33
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Looking out of the window
    Posts
    13,948

    Default Re: Does Red Diesel Issue = Rapid Diesel Vessel Depreciation

    BTW, if Red diesel is retained - and i hope it is, why should mariners pay full duty for petrol? Same basis as Red diesel for pleasureboaters surely.

    No doubt the arguement will be that diesel is used by the industry, by fishermen, by ferries etc and petrol is only used by MoBoers with plastic US boats.

    If that is the arguement, then you begin to see why Red diesl may go - the Government hate the thought that us 'Rich' boaters are avoiding tax.

    Remeber - build the country, tax the middle class!

  4. #34
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Duxford,Cambridgeshire
    Posts
    75

    Default Re: Does Red Diesel Issue = Rapid Diesel Vessel Depreciation

    Greetings all

    I`m new to boating and was looking at buying a second hand motor cruiser , I`ve been following this thread with interest for a while now. I recently contacted a broker with regard to the red diesel issue, as I need all the help and advice I can get, this was the reply

    " The red diesel issue will not come into effect until Jan 2007 - so I am told. If the price goes up to the price for the rest of Europe and then boat prices come down, you will probably find that the French, Spanish etc will come and buy their boats here instead! "

    Has anyone any thoughts as to how much percentage wise the deprciation would be on a mobo ? if any.
    Any other buying tips or advice would be very much appreciated

    Cheers

  5. #35
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Posts
    529

    Default Re: Does Red Diesel Issue = Rapid Diesel Vessel Depreciation

    Point is that it won't go up to the price of the rest of Europe, it will go much higher.

    After all we pay more for our petrol and white diesel than most of Europe so why should red be any different?

  6. #36
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Duxford,Cambridgeshire
    Posts
    75

    Default Re: Does Red Diesel Issue = Rapid Diesel Vessel Depreciation

    Thats a good point ! so if you were in my position would you wait untill the outcome of the red diesel is known before you went ahead and bought , or would you buy now ? I know its a personal opinion but you are the ones that know about this subject and know about boats and their value, I will provide a person e-mail address if need be.

    Cheers [img]/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

    Not sure if I like these little faces though, thought I`d give em a try

  7. #37
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    k up your daughters
    Posts
    3,341

    Default Re: Does Red Diesel Issue = Rapid Diesel Vessel Depreciation

    I believe the big swing will be in the supply and demand issue, in Holland people who have their boats have bought them understanding the costs, what we have here now is people who have boats that they 'thought' they could afford that are now going to become too expensive to run. Now if these all start going on the market the price will drop, not good for anyone but it will happen, panic selling, just look at the panic at the pumps a few days ago. People who can't afford diesel at petrol prices and more the way things are going MUST get out now before it is too late, they can always com back in if it doesn't happen which is unlikely, but if you could be about to lose 40k or so I know what I would do.

    I don't wish hardship on anyone and we all have a laugh now and again but this is serious get your head out of the sand time!

  8. #38
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    k up your daughters
    Posts
    3,341

    Default Re: Does Red Diesel Issue = Rapid Diesel Vessel Depreciation

    There will always be people who can afford to go boating, but the 'right people' that can afford it. Present diesel boaters have been the cats with the cream for years and made hay while the sun shines, they have saved thousands the honeymoon is now over, no surprise it has been talked about for years on this forum. What you do have is people who are not in the right boat for their financial circumstances, e.g. they could not afford to run it at petrol and above prices, the people looking to buy their boat knowing that would be higher income earners, so it will be the same people buying new but their budget will have to take into account the cost of running it.

    e.g. Average £1,000 per month budget to boat with (excludes depreciation)

    Old : Finance £600, Marina £200, Maintenance £50, Fuel £150

    New : Finance £300, Marina £200, Maintenance £50, Fuel £450

    You do not need to be a brain surgeon to see that you will get less boat for your budget [img]/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] The money MUST come from somewhere!

  9. #39
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Sussex
    Posts
    1,580

    Default Re: Does Red Diesel Issue = Rapid Diesel Vessel Depreciation

    Fuel costs won't triple from today's prices.

    Current duty on red is 5.22p per litre.
    Current duty on white is 47.1p per litre.
    Difference is 41.88p per litre.
    To this VAT is added ( [img]/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] )making a total of 49.21p per litre increase.

    In my part of the world I'm paying 55p per litre, so all other things being equal the price will roughly double not triple.

    Only if oil prices fell right back, which seems highly unlikely, would the cost triple as the amount of duty increase is unrelated to the fuel price.

    Interestingly Biodiesel is taxed at 27.1p per litre. Anybody out there that can produce it for the same cost as conventional diesel??

    I'd also question that if an individual can afford £1000 per month for boating they couldn't afford £1150, IMHO.
    Adrian is searching for his next boat....

  10. #40
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    ked into poverty by children
    Posts
    8,517

    Default Re: Does Red Diesel Issue = Rapid Diesel Vessel Depreciation

    But if the individual can afford £100 per month for boating then £250 looks unattractive.

    As some folk still don't spot, its those on the margins of affordability (a sizeable number IMO) who will be screwed.
    Two beers please, my friend is paying.

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