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  1. #41
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    Default Re: Does Red Diesel Issue = Rapid Diesel Vessel Depreciation

    Many of us pay a lot less than 55p per litre hence the treble price. Plus there may be large additional cost heaped onto the suppliers with separate fule tanks etc.

    What really matters is the marginal cost of a trip - a local trip costing say £300 you may just about accept - if the costs goes to £750 you would not do the trip - its a question of value for money.
    Paul
    St Francis 50 Cat
    http://www.multihulls4us.com

  2. #42
    AdeOlly's Avatar
    AdeOlly is online now Registered User
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    Default Re: Does Red Diesel Issue = Rapid Diesel Vessel Depreciation

    If the monthly budget for boating is £100 only part of that will be fuel...

    Granted those on the margins may have problems, and that's one of the key reasons we're all fighting the case.

    My point was that peeps that can afford £1000 a month on boating can probably find the extra £150 or so.
    Adrian

  3. #43
    AdeOlly's Avatar
    AdeOlly is online now Registered User
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    Default Re: Does Red Diesel Issue = Rapid Diesel Vessel Depreciation

    Sure if you're lucky enough to pay 35p or so at the mo the price will treble. Where can you get fuel for that price??

    The ones that will really suffer are those with large boats and inefficient engines, and I can see those vessels decreasing in value. Maybe the flip side is that smaller boats, say sub 35', with modern engines will increase in value as owners trade down????
    Adrian

  4. #44
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    Default Re: Does Red Diesel Issue = Rapid Diesel Vessel Depreciation

    A lot of boaters struggle to run their boats.
    I know a boater who bought a petrol boat - went on his first trip and spent £800 on fuel - then spent the whole winter changing his boat over to diesel. if he was being forced to spend at the petrol price he would not be able to do it.

    Last year I was paying 22p per litre - if red goes given the natural fuel inflation plus the extra tax the fuel costs could easily be £1.30 per litre - faced with that sort of increase over a short time many boaters will not be able to afford to keep their boats.

    For those who could afford it many would choose not to afford it and either sell up or take the boat away from the UK. The balance will have tipped away from keeping it here.

    Many of those who have made money and can afford large boats value money and want value for money - the stereotype of the rich who do not care about value for money is not true - or at least only true in a small number of cases.

    Those indifferent to what may happen or arguing that it would not have a large effect on boating are simply fooling themselves and sometimes those who listen to them.

    If anything, if red goes, it will signal the demise of the large planing cruising boat in the UK. There would probably be a move towards displacement and semi-displacement boats. All high speed planing boats use a lot of fuel relative to their size and so all would be hit - regardless of being 30 foot or 60 foot.
    Paul
    St Francis 50 Cat
    http://www.multihulls4us.com

  5. #45
    Andrew_Fanner is offline Registered User
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    Default Re: Does Red Diesel Issue = Rapid Diesel Vessel Depreciation

    Assuming boat is wholly owned.

    Mooring costs are fixed (pretty much) regardless of fuel costs
    Insurance ditto
    Licences ditto
    so not germane to the argument. I'm assuming £100 per month on fuel. Not too hard to do if you get out and play every weekend.

    In passing I don't get through that much, don't get the time.
    Two beers please, my friend is paying.

  6. #46
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    Default Re: Does Red Diesel Issue = Rapid Diesel Vessel Depreciation

    A single fill up at 43p per litre costs me over £1k - that could end up at £3k plus.

    Cruising boats of any size do not get far on £100 worth of fuel. It will hurt and it will effect the whole cruising power boat market.
    Paul
    St Francis 50 Cat
    http://www.multihulls4us.com

  7. #47
    Robih is offline Registered User
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    Default Re: Does Red Diesel Issue = Rapid Diesel Vessel Depreciation

    Gludy,

    We've shared our views (which are similar) on this subject before and we've been shot down as scaremongerers; but my view remains pessimistic. You might remember that I've sold out of power boating in to sail because of my concerns.

    You're right again about your refuel going from £1k to £3k and can I ask you, as a big Squadron owner, whether that level of cost will significantly affect your future cruising/boat owning decisions? Personal question granted so please feel free to ignore. I'm interested because the Squadron owner is always used as an illustration of an owner who, having spent a pile on buying the boat really won't care about the £3k refuel cost - is that true for you?

    rob

  8. #48
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    Default Re: Does Red Diesel Issue = Rapid Diesel Vessel Depreciation

    No it is not true of me nor of other squadron owners I know.


    Some would take their boats away from the UK.

    Some would pack it in.

    I do not know anyone who would just carry on. Even now with our local fuel price having doubled in one year - it has changed the views and owners are waiting to see what happens with red.

    I have purchased a new SD boat that offers me a choice of going slow in a comfortable fashion and using 1/3 of the fuel. So it has changed my boating already.

    You have come out of power so it has changed yours.

    I know for certain that those with smaller boats who say just manage the £100 for the weekend are not going to manage the £300 for the same trip.

    "Squadron owner is always used as an illustration of an owner who, having spent a pile on buying the boat really won't care about the £3k refuel cost "

    I only know those who care, I know none who would take this 'do not care' view - they say its better to take a holiday than go for a weekend cruise ... its a question of value for money, there comes a point when they would prefer to spend thier money on something else.

    The idea that those who can afford a Squadron just throw their money around care free is rubbish. Its an idea fixed in some troubled blazered salemans mind .... the old "if you need to ask about the fuel consumption then you cannot afford the boat ...." Utter rubbish. I ask and I can afford.

    Spending money is about choosing the best balance for your needs - change the price and that balance changes because other options become preferable inlcuding the option not to spend the money at all.

    Boat sales are not good at present - I think generally speaking sales of gin palaces at SIBS will turn out to be poor - already the trade is reporting an overall poor year - only part of this will be due to the confusion over Red but if red goes to road price level and beyond you can expect to see a major effect throughout the marine industry - the red issue has not been discounted - most boaters I speak to think they just cannot do away with it .... wishful thinking.
    Paul
    St Francis 50 Cat
    http://www.multihulls4us.com

  9. #49
    Robih is offline Registered User
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    Default Re: Does Red Diesel Issue = Rapid Diesel Vessel Depreciation

    Interesting, agreed and as I expected.

    Rob

  10. #50

    Default Re: Does Red Diesel Issue = Rapid Diesel Vessel Depreciation

    Interesting to know that even the well heeled look at the price on the pump when they fill upÖ

    But I think I prefer the idea that they donít care and that they all sit around drinking gin smoking big fat cigars while looking down from the Flybridge at us in our 30 footers.

    It gives me something to aspire toÖ

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