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  1. #31
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
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    7,163

    Default Re: Email exchange with the MD

    I would add that in order to make an advertising claim such as that made by the company in this case they need to have the evidence to support it. Without that conclusive evidence they may well be placing misleading advertising and hence be subject to a possible complaint to the Advertising Standards Authority.

    Obviously, in this case we shall receive that chapter and verse evidence and hence preclude the need for such a complaint.
    Paul
    St Francis 50 Cat
    http://www.multihulls4us.com

  2. #32
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
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    7,163

    Default Re: 25 knots at a third the fuel

    "You can go three times further in a cat for the same money"

    Not if you have your way you cannot!!!!

    Please stop trying to make this into an efficiency of Cat issue - you so far have totally ignored questions relating to your campaign to stop red and this sir is what this thread is about.

    So please naswer why you have campaigned this way and why you are campaigning to increase the cost of cats to the same level as mono hulls and hence take the advanatges of cats out of the range of many aspiring boaters?
    Paul
    St Francis 50 Cat
    http://www.multihulls4us.com

  3. #33

    Default Red Diesel Debate

    Hi all,

    I am employed in the marine industry, as well as a keen boater. I currently cannot afford a boat of my own, and cannot see that red diesel disapearing will help me!

    BUT I would be in favour of red diesel disapearing, if AND ONLY IF we ALSO get our road fuel and Car Tax IN LINE with Europe. This would mean that although there was an increase in the cost of boat fuel, the cost of EVERYTHING else, from boats to bread, went down too. EUROPE SHOULD NOT BE ABLE TO HAVE IT ALL WAYS!

    As a direct comment on Mr Mayhew's letter, I agree that his words may have been poorly chosen, but can we rely on the average MP to interpret them as he intended, when everyone on this Forum has apparently failed to do so??

    Some good debating points, but as was pointed out, the ecological benefits (and other bonusses) of cats has been debated at length elsewhere. Only one point I would make is that there are aspects to pollution other than atmoshperic, and in terms of eco-system impact on a local basis, boats (and their users) have at least as much if not more impact than planes! I am not saying that anyone should change massively, but surely it is down to the individual -user or designer-to make their own decisions what action they should take to help, NOT the government. All of us making small changes of our own free will will have more effect!

    Now, I know I've probably just let myself in for a slating by some of this, but lets see where it goes!!

  4. #34
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Posts
    7,163

    Default Re: Red Diesel Debate

    I think its important that we not debate the general issues of red on this thread - they have been well discussed on many other threads.

    I do not want this company to squirm out of the fact that they are campaiging for red to cease which is directly against the interest of their own customers and the industry. They are clearly doing this without any real understanding of the issues.

    Further the tax subsidy reference was not a mistake, not poorly chosen words - it was simply quoting the popur unthought through points of others and shows that they are simply trying to jump on a bandwagon without any thought for the industry OR their customers.
    Paul
    St Francis 50 Cat
    http://www.multihulls4us.com

  5. #35
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Posts
    6,925

    Default Re: Email exchange with the MD

    Tell me if I'm wrong, but you talk of "leisure diesel" and "leisure boats" etc. But looking at your website, from what I can see, the product is aimed squarely at the commercial boat market. The exception being the runabout in wide beam and narrow beam formats. So why hit out at a market re the tax issues when in actual fact your product is not really aimed at these markets?

    Even with the runabout that uses outboards I can see that 99% of customers will opt for one of the commercially available petrol powered brands. So this will have no impact on the position of tax on red.

    I'd be interested in your views. Thanks for taking the time to read/reply on the forum.

  6. Default Re: 25 knots at a third the fuel

    Well, I don't think I am trying to raise the cost of cats to the same level as monohulls. I am doing the opposite - calling for the same tax on leisure diesel as on private car use - to encourage boaters to use more environmentally-friendly boat designs, namely cats.

    I am campaigning for this because I believe in it and believe in participating in democracy. I am very happy for you to campaign against. What's the problem? Why should we have low-tax diesel for leisure boat use anyway? Isn't it your position that is the weak one?

    If you feel I am not tackling something or running away from a topic please let me know what it is so I can reply before going off to have my lunch - I don't want to seem a coward as you suggest. Let's have an open debate on all the issues. That is the way to enlightenment and self-improvement, isn't it?

  7. #37
    tcm is online now Registered User
    Location : Caribbean at the moment
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
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    22,838

    Default Re: 25 knots at a third the fuel

    I have been in cats, thanks, and am well aware of the differences.

    People hereabouts have boats from 20-80 feet with varying levels of comfort as they require. Or, they adapt their boating to conditions.

    By the way - bad weather handling ain't a huge issue for mobos - cos mobos are fast, we can wait for weather and go. Unlike sailing, we don't much get "caught out" and don't need the aggro of "dealing with it". During your trip, we wouldn't have bothered, ta. Or of course, we'd have a much bigger mobo, praps.

    The issues raised by others remain. There is now a distinct "feel bad" factor in purchasing one from you with your tacit desire to increase taxes. Do you really think that people who buy ferraris would buy cheaper-fuel cars if fuel prices doubled?

    The selling aspects of your boats imho are that they're like the race boats - fast etc. Not that they're cheap. I don't want cheap stuff when making that purchase.

    The triggers for a purchase such as this are emtional, not logical. Saving a few quid on fuel or being warm and dry - if i really wanted these i'd stay on dry land, see?

    imho it was a giant mistake of yours to mention fuel tax. And especially in the manner that you did.

    Some publicity evidently IS bad publicity, perhaps? I spose you'll find out ...

  8. #38

    Default Re: Red Diesel Debate

    Fair enough -I am new to the forums, so will try and read up elsewhere!

  9. #39
    duncan's Avatar
    duncan is offline Registered User
    Location : Home mid Kent - Boat @ Poole
    Join Date
    May 2001
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    9,431

    Default Re: 25 knots at a third the fuel

    Henry,

    Firstly thank you for taking the time to register and respond on here.

    I don't think anyone has any major issue with the either the stated aims of your company with regards to minimising the wide range of ecological factors impacted by leisure boating. Equally the potential benefits of a cat hull have been well and trully aired to this audience.
    The bizzare bit is your logic re red diesel!

    Consider the following arguments -
    1. red diesel could enable someone to afford an eco friendly cat who might not otherwise do so! A single next generation diesel would be cheaper and more fuel efficient still than the best of the new generation OBs Volvo D3 v ETECs and that's before factoring in red (or even after this government's diesel emissions tax too!)
    2. From an eco perspective alone I would be delighted to pay an extra 2-4p / pl for a ultra low sulphur marine diesel - far better than simply paying more in tax that won't actually increase net revenues after administration and contributes to other serious risks for UK plc

    I can only conclude that you are in some sort of deal with an OB manufacturer of efficient petrol units ..........

    Finally I ran my 26ft diesel from Poole Harbour to St Catherines Point and back on Sunday at between 20 and 28knots using around 44l (48 miles) - doesn't make it a better boat than yours of course...... [img]/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

  10. #40

    Default Re: Red Diesel Debate

    HenryMayhew, you still haven't answered Gludy's initial question as to why you are campaigning for red diesel to go ?

    so, enough of the **** about the benefits of cats, just answer the question.

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