Sailing Ships cargo discharge South America

[wayneward]

Researching a novel I have found hardly any data of how sailing ships in the late 1880's discharged their coal cargoes [Chile/ Peru] and loaded their back cargoes of nitrates and guano. These ships discharged at anchor into lighters. Did these vessels utilise their yardarms rigged with purchase, the braces set as guys? I have discovered ballast at some South American anchorages was discharged directly over the side. This was done using a heavy wire strop rigged between the fore and mainmasts, ballast hauled out using a gyn block seized to the strop and slid over the side on hatch boards.
Is there anyone who has a knowledge of this old technology?

Wayne Ward
Wangi Wangi NSW.

[VO5]

Originally Posted by wayneward

Researching a novel I have found hardly any data of how sailing ships in the late 1880's discharged their coal cargoes [Chile/ Peru] and loaded their back cargoes of nitrates and guano. These ships discharged at anchor into lighters. Did these vessels utilise their yardarms rigged with purchase, the braces set as guys? I have discovered ballast at some South American anchorages was discharged directly over the side. This was done using a heavy wire strop rigged between the fore and mainmasts, ballast hauled out using a gyn block seized to the strop and slid over the side on hatch boards.
Is there anyone who has a knowledge of this old technology?

Wayne Ward
Wangi Wangi NSW.

Yes, I know.
In the olden days the coal was taken off the ships by teams of men with sacks who went aboard one gangway with empty sacks and came down another with full sacks, emptying them into waiting carts pulled by horses. This was also the practice with steamships when moored alongside. These men were paid by the sackful of which a tally was kept. The job went on a first come, first served basis, and the reward settled with each man at the end of the day's work by the ship's agent, or in some cases, the Mate.

About discharging into lighters I don't know, but I will make enquiries and will return with the answer if and when I can obtain it for you. Howzat ?

[sarabande]

there were also coaling hulks (old ships no longer useable at sea) and they acted as bunkers. Equipped usually with sheer legs and horse power at first, later moved through steam cranes to diesel/electric.

http://www.gosport.info/History/Gosp...he_hulk_3.html

and a bit more on the transition from ocean-girdling vessel to rotting hulk.

http://www.museum.wa.gov.au/collecti...any%20Coal.pdf

[VO5]

I have found out more...

Wool was shipped in bales.
Grain in sacks.

Both of these were discharged using cargo nets. The Cargo nets were rigged to 3 fold purchase block and tackle attached to the relevant yard closest to the hold and maniplated using the braces to discharge overboard to the pier or a lighter alongside.

About Coal, Coke and Guano I still have not yet been able to track down the answer but we are not far off. I will post when I find out for you.

[parsifal]

Geordie collier brigs used to discharge their coal by 'jumping'. Maybe that method was used in the South American ports?

http://www.worthingherald.co.uk/Cust...ectionID=14210

[wayneward]

Originally Posted by VO5

Yes, I know.
In the olden days the coal was taken off the ships by teams of men with sacks who went aboard one gangway with empty sacks and came down another with full sacks, emptying them into waiting carts pulled by horses. This was also the practice with steamships when moored alongside. These men were paid by the sackful of which a tally was kept. The job went on a first come, first served basis, and the reward settled with each man at the end of the day's work by the ship's agent, or in some cases, the Mate.

About discharging into lighters I don't know, but I will make enquiries and will return with the answer if and when I can obtain it for you. Howzat ?

Thanks for the contact. I have poured over books from R H. Dana to most of the Cape Horn epics [all written by officers incidently] with only fleeting references to cargo operations. I did learn the meaning of the word stevedoring from Dana. Though sailing ships had their gear arranged similar they were individual ships in their sailing abilities- and that would no doubt be the same with their cargo gear. I was an AB/bosun for 44 years and I do have a sound knowledge of ships gear, but just to get it firsthand from the writings of seamen of that era will add to what knowledge I wish to impart in my own writings. Wayne

[VO5]

Originally Posted by wayneward

Thanks for the contact. I have poured over books from R H. Dana to most of the Cape Horn epics [all written by officers incidently] with only fleeting references to cargo operations. I did learn the meaning of the word stevedoring from Dana. Though sailing ships had their gear arranged similar they were individual ships in their sailing abilities- and that would not doubt would be the same with their cargo gear. I was an AB/bosun for 44 years and I do have a sound knowledge of ships gear, but just to get it firsthand from the writings of seamen of that era will add to what knowledge I wish to impart in my own writings. Wayne

OK, I understand.

If one is to consider how the yards on a square rigged ship are disposed, it will become apparent immediately that to swing round the yards as you would using a boom would be impractical. Why ? Because the yards themselves are already heavy enough, supported by topping lifts and hove to and fro using the braces.

It makes sense than rather than using the yard to swing round the cargo, the yard itself could be positioned such that as described in the previous post, when lifting out of the hold using the hook and rope with three tails, that the main element in getting the stuff overboard was by assisted momentum.

By this I mean getting the load to swing away from the centreline of the hold and towards the gunwale, and then, an extra push coming from the mate to assist getting it overboard.
Do you agree ?

In a modern context think of rigged derricks with suitable block and tackle to swing cargo out of holds and onto lighters or the wharf but using winch power rather than manpower, these rigged derricks being dispositioned to do that work exclusively and properly positioned to be able to carry it out.
Do you agree ?

It is a coincidence that I lived in Worthing for 5 years up to two years ago. I know exactly the places he mentions and it would have been very interesting to talk to an old seaman with square rig experience of this kind.

[monkey_trousers]

there still loads of 'ballast hills' on the upper reaches of the tyne from the days of colliers sailing up river, dumping ballast then heading back to sea loaded with coal. The coal on the tyne was usually loaded by conveyor/chute of some description. There still a few coal staithes rotting away up and down the river, some are massive, the ones at dunston are europes biggest wooden structure apparently

not sailing days, but a few scottish ones from early last century, puffers from loading in glasgow to unloading wherever (iona in this case)









tractors receiving the load on these, but before that it was horse and cart, the bucket filled by the boats crew, half a ton or a ton at a time. Prior to the steam puffers, the sailing luggers used exactly the same technique, beach at high tide, discharge cargo then float off on the enxt tide