I'm sniffing around for used Beneteau First and some that I come across look set up for a regattering (or is "regatting"?), things like numbers on the bow, flashy semi-trasparent sails and rigid wangs plus probably other kit. On one hand it looks like the boats have been kept up to date with better kit.
I like cruising and I have no experience of racing so I don't know if its a good or bad thing. Generally they look more cherished vessels. What should I look out for?
TIA
Will
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Most of the newer generation Firsts will have been raced at some point, yes, but the early generation Firsts won't have. Firsts like the 285, 305, 325, 345, 375, 435 etc were just good cruising boats
Where as the 32s5, 35s5 40s5 etc were sportier, but even those weren't regulars on the race course
The Firsts after around '95 where the racier end of the spectrum
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Firsts ending in .7 very likely to have been on the race course. Some of the earlier 40.7s were reputed to have become a bit banana shaped due to excessive rig tension, hence the sobriquet 'Bendytoys'. But if you find one you like, a survey should spot any race-induced problems.
Generally, a competitive race boat will have been well looked after in terms of sails, rig, foils, hardware and bottom (coz those make them go fast) but the interior may have suffered from sails, lines and bodies being thrust below in haste. Your eyes should tell you that.
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Check the doors fit. If not, it may be a sign the hull has been distorted by too much backstay tension. Beneteaus are nicknamed bendy toys in some racing quarters.
Check the attachment of the forestay. It's not unknown for it to come away on some First x.7s. The good news is that many racers will have had it strengthened.
Check the woodwork. Wet spinnakers do it no good, but it should be obvious.
Check the hull for repairs.
Generally a boat that has been raced seriously will have better deck fittings that will have been maintained well, so it is not all bad news.
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"Most races are not won; they are lost by all those who do not finish first." - Stuart H Walker, Advanced Racing Tactics
I'm sniffing around for used Beneteau First and some that I come across look set up for a regattering (or is "regatting"?), things like numbers on the bow, flashy semi-trasparent sails and rigid wangs ...
Coo. I'd heard that racing was exciting, but not that exciting.
I'm sniffing around for used Beneteau First and some that I come across look set up for a regattering (or is "regatting"?), things like numbers on the bow, flashy semi-trasparent sails and rigid wangs plus probably other kit. On one hand it looks like the boats have been kept up to date with better kit.
I like cruising and I have no experience of racing so I don't know if its a good or bad thing. Generally they look more cherished vessels. What should I look out for?
TIA
Will
If your target boat is 6-8 years old, factor in replacement standing rigging - assume a forshortened life. The spars will be ok: this covers for the stresses involved in racing. The running rigging you can check out by eye.
But, take great care that the stearing gear and keel are pristine - no slack or signs of impact. Any doubt, walk away.
Some will warn you to look closely at the chain plates too: any over-loading here could spell problems ahead. Look for hairline cracks and signs of movement.
Final check: run your hands round the glassed-in edges of the furniture: if you feel the glassing coming away the hull has possibly experienced twisting from high loading, resulting in rupture between funiture and hull. Again, walk away.
If the above checks out, you will probably not be at risk as the new owner!
I'd want to know how the owner has been doing his maintenance.
Has he been DIY'ing it (not necessarily bad, but tends to point to a lesser level of investment in the boat)
Or have the local rigger, yard etc been sending him Christmas cards?
If the latter you can be fairly sure the rig and steering gear (for example) are in good nick, as in my experience these professionals are quite good at talking owners into updates.
And racing in general encourages people to keep on top of the preventative maintenance. There is nothing more frustrating than blowing a regatta that you've spent time and money on just because of a silly, preventable, breakage.
The engine is unlikely to have been used in the way reccomended by the people who built it. Instead of long periods running at medium revs it will be started, almost immediately run up to cruising speed or above, and then shut off just as it gets to temperature when the boat arrives at the starting area. Then after racing, run as hard as the crew dare (before the owner gets them to slow down) to get them to the bar asap!
Stick the boat's sail number into google, this will bring up quite a bit of its racing history. Less important if you are not going to race it yourself, but will enable you to quickly judge the amount of use it's had, and the skill level of the previous owner.
A consistently back of the fleet boat would worry me slightly, as few of the back of the pack boats are as good with regular maintenance as the top boats, and suffer more from "opperator error".
But a consitently race winning boat would worry me more, unless I wanted to race it, as it's probably had higher loads through it, and more "it's not that windy really..." spinnaker runs. Shouldn't really be an issue, but I'd pay even more attention to the standing rigging in that case.
Also, bear in mind that very sucessful boats can go for a slight premium, and will include tons of sails etc that you will have no need for if you're just going to be cruising, with a possible price disadvantage. Look out for "essential" cruising kit missing. It's not uncommon for serious racers to specify things like no hot water, even to production cruiser racers, and they will never have an anchor windlass. Kitting such a boat out to "family cruising" levels could wind up a costly exercise.
Rule of thumb - above deck they will be far better maintained than their cruising cousins, but below deck the opposite will be true.
Try and find out if the bloke selling it, the broker or the owner, are still racing in that fleet. If so they may not wish to sell to someone who's not going to race it, as fleet numbers are suffering at the moment. So an enquiry from someone planning on keeping it in the same place and racing it may well be prefered to yours. Not saying they wouldn't sell to you if there is no other interest, but they may favour a rival bidder if it comes to that.
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So much thanks for everyone that has spent their time responding. Really help me eyeballing the boats when I go and see them. Now I know where to look and I may even seem knowledgeable instead of just looking in the bilge.
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Absolute certainty is a priviledge of uneducated minds and fanatics. C.J.Keyser
Location: 'ang on a mo, I'll just take some bearings
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Flaming's post reminds me - there may also not be a genoa furler.
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There are three kinds of people:
Those who learn by reading.
Those who learn by observation.
Those who have to pee on an electric fence for themselves.
I'm sniffing around for used Beneteau First and some that I come across look set up for a regattering (or is "regatting"?), things like numbers on the bow, flashy semi-trasparent sails and rigid wangs plus probably other kit. On one hand it looks like the boats have been kept up to date with better kit.
I like cruising and I have no experience of racing so I don't know if its a good or bad thing. Generally they look more cherished vessels. What should I look out for?
TIA
Will
One thing to have looked at VERY carefully is the standing rigging as some or perhaps all of it may be rod rigging.
A friend of mine bought a 35s? and one if the intermediates was faulty. Fortunately he got the vendor to replace it. It cost a Kings ransom just for that one stay.
If you like cruising why don't you look at Oceanis series instead (just curious)? Many Oceanis boats have borrowed First's hulls, if it is the hull you are looking for. For example Beneteau Oceanis 361 has used FIRST 35S7 (from Berret-Racoupeau) hull.
If you like cruising why don't you look at Oceanis series instead (just curious)? Many Oceanis boats have borrowed First's hulls, if it is the hull you are looking for. For example Beneteau Oceanis 361 has used FIRST 35S7 (from Berret-Racoupeau) hull.
Good idea! Had a look at the 361 and I do like it. Well thought out and comfy down below and an ex-charter 2001 can be had (ex-tax on the other side of the pond which is where I'm headed for the winter) for $75k which is what a 1990 35s5 is asking in Spain. OK one is an ex-sunsail ex-tax and sooner or later needs bringing over here but the 35s5 is 10 years older. So yes, thanks I'm giving it thought.
Will
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Absolute certainty is a priviledge of uneducated minds and fanatics. C.J.Keyser
Location: 'ang on a mo, I'll just take some bearings
Posts: 17,178
Swings and roundabouts.
An ex-charter cruiser may have done more work and been less fastidiously maintained than a keenly-raced boat. On the other hand...
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There are three kinds of people:
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If a boat has been used for racing?
Thanks a load!!!!
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