Being 5th of Nov (and me being a tight arse) I gave the kids a treat by letting off two out of date (2006) red hand-held flares (save me the lectures on the rights & wrongs of doing so on land ). Thought I'd share my observations as it's the first time I've ever let one off.
1) They both lit no problem despite being 3 years out of date
2) One went for 40 secs the other just over a minute
3) If on the boat, they would leave loads of hot sparks/detritis all over the deck unless you were really on the most downwind part of the boat
4) The 'stick' part of the flare glows red hot for 15 to 30 seconds after it's finished - so bung it overboard as soon as it's done
5) (and the best bit of learning for me)... it sounds obvious, but they burned more brightly than I anticipated, so much so that if you were at sea in trouble at night, your night vision would be buggered for some time if you happened to look directly at the flare bit
Sorry if this is obvious to those who have lit one in anger, but I'm glad to have done so in the garden as I learnt a lot about how it might go at sea.
I don't see a problem with letting off a handheld flare in the garden as long as you are not living at the end of an isolated promontory sticking out to sea. A parachute flare is a different matter. These are potentially dangerous on land.
I did the same a couple of years ago. I first kitted myself out in my motorcycle helmet with the visor down and wore a leather jacket and gauntlets. I'm glad I did because as you say they burn much brighter and hotter than you expect. It was quite scarey to think I might have to let one off on the deck of a small plastic boat. Definitely worth trying before getting into a life or death situation.
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Well, if you've never set off a flare before, the best experience I've ever had is an RNLI flare demonstration. My dive club contacted our local RNLI officer who offered to set up a demo night just for us. All flares provided by the RNLI - we got to set off standard red flare, red smoke, parachute flares, the small waterproof rocket flares, the lot!
Big eye opener re: the amount of smoke and lethal hot burning stuff going all over the place. Could certainly make your emergency on a small inflatable dive boat more stressful as you burn a hole in your buoyancy tubes and light your fuel can. However, encouraging how many calls Swansea coastguard got that night.
Hopefully health & safety haven't put paid to this excellent educational service which is definitely worth doing as despite all the reading you can do on the subject, it still scared the carp out me
I tell you what, that's really useful. I wonder how many people who carry flares onboard have no idea what the reality would be of actually using the things, especially since in their normal use people may be in a bit of a panic already.
One of the best things people could do would be to see flares demonstrated. I'm tempted to do it again just as a refresher.
agree with bristoldiver - had never set off a flare until last weekend - RNLI did a demo at one of the local clubs (Blackpool Light Craft) - I found the smoke and hand held flares easy to use and to control - though was surprised at how quickly a rocket can go off - and now appreciate how careful you have to be when using them. Thoroughly recommend attending a demo if you can.
Did a Sea Survival course and were allowed to set off flares. As many have said, they burn far brighter and hotter than you can imagine. We were told to wear gloves due to the heat, and even the glove I was wearing caught fire!
As an aside, am I right in thinking it's not legal to let flares off at events such as bonfire night? Not trying to be spoil sport - just a memory from something I heard a long time ago!
Well, if you've never set off a flare before, the best experience I've ever had is an RNLI flare demonstration. My dive club contacted our local RNLI officer who offered to set up a demo night just for us. All flares provided by the RNLI - we got to set off standard red flare, red smoke, parachute flares, the small waterproof rocket flares, the lot!
Big eye opener re: the amount of smoke and lethal hot burning stuff going all over the place. Could certainly make your emergency on a small inflatable dive boat more stressful as you burn a hole in your buoyancy tubes and light your fuel can. However, encouraging how many calls Swansea coastguard got that night.
Hopefully health & safety haven't put paid to this excellent educational service which is definitely worth doing as despite all the reading you can do on the subject, it still scared the carp out me
Thanks for providing the link to Tamsin Thomas' piece. The RNLI Sea Safety Volunteers are an enthusiastic bunch who have been well trained and are able not only to provide flare demos to groups such as clubs, but can also come aboard to discuss safety equipment with individual owners if asked to do so. How do I know? I was one until reaching the age which the RNLI have set as being too old! You can find your nearest group on the RNLI website if you would like a visit. It's all free, they know what they are talking about and are specifically trained not to preach at you!
[QUOTE=Piers;2301253
As an aside, am I right in thinking it's not legal to let flares off at events such as bonfire night? Not trying to be spoil sport - just a memory from something I heard a long time ago![/QUOTE] Yes, I wondered that - something to do with not making a false distress signal IIRC. Though quite how the RNLI reckon to reach a back garden 50 miles inland....
Spoilsports! It would be good practice for all of us to occasionally fire one of these things off, and would help solve the disposal problem for TEPs. Quite apart from keeping the kids happy on 5th Nov. In any case many fireworks send up red 'flares': How do they tell the difference except that Flares are more powerful? Chi Harbour has a local rule that any fireworks party harbourside must be notified to the Hm beforehand.
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Good advice to practice using flares and organised demos are probably the best way although I've used bonfire night myself in the past. Also some of my new flares now are triggered the opposite way to what I'm used to, so in the dark it's quite feasible I'll fire it at my foot!!
Also, daft as it sounds, it's now illegal to enter Northern Ireland with flares on board. Quite what one is supposed to do when you enter a NI harbour/marina I don't know. I just ignore the stupid rule.
We had to use 2 handheld flares last year that were from a brand new pack, 1 worked fine, the other one was duff as the string just pulled out from it!! And I had to battle with company for a replacement pack.
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Handheld flares are brilliant for lighting bonfires.
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Yes, I wondered that - something to do with not making a false distress signal IIRC. Though quite how the RNLI reckon to reach a back garden 50 miles inland....
Spoilsports! It would be good practice for all of us to occasionally fire one of these things off, and would help solve the disposal problem for TEPs. Quite apart from keeping the kids happy on 5th Nov. In any case many fireworks send up red 'flares': How do they tell the difference except that Flares are more powerful? Chi Harbour has a local rule that any fireworks party harbourside must be notified to the Hm beforehand.
It is not safe to let off parachute flares on land, as they burn until they land. OK at sea, where they'll land in the water, but they are quite capable of burning someone's house down on-shore.
You have hit the nail right on the head. Although we are talking about hand held pinpoint flares here they are all classified as dangerous when used for any other purpose than that intended.
Several years ago at a football ground (Cardiff City, I seem to recall) some fool decided that it would be fun to fire a para red across the field to the stand opposite and in so doing killed someone there. At roughly the same period at a beach party in Cornwall another para red was discharged by someone who did not know the procedure and it shot across the beach horizontally, breaking someone's leg on its way.
Following these two incidents the firing of distress flares of any sort for any other reason was made illegal.
No lecture, just an observation as a professional with training in and experience of pyrotechnics: once beyond their date these things degrade in an unstable and unpredictable way.
Let off a flare in your garden miles inland if you must (though technically you are breaking the law), but if I were you I would not let off an out of date flare any place near me.
And please don't let off parachute flares anywhere except over water; they burn fiercely and will set fire to whatever they land on.
Also, daft as it sounds, it's now illegal to enter Northern Ireland with flares on board. Quite what one is supposed to do when you enter a NI harbour/marina I don't know. I just ignore the stupid rule.
Where is this stipulated?
News to me, and that's part of our holiday area.
once beyond their date these things degrade in an unstable and unpredictable way...
if I were you I would not let off an out of date flare any place near me.
That's not the experience of myself and some others on the forum who've let off flares up to decades old (see e.g. http://www.ybw.com/forums/showflat.p...page/3#2054793 ). Not that I would recommend it, but let's not be unduly alarmist either.
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Indeed, when I had a RNLI safety check, the advisor advised keeping an in-date set of flares aboard, and the most recently outdated set. That was about six years back.
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There are three kinds of people:
Those who learn by reading.
Those who learn by observation.
Those who have to pee on an electric fence for themselves.
You have hit the nail right on the head. Although we are talking about hand held pinpoint flares here they are all classified as dangerous when used for any other purpose than that intended.
Several years ago at a football ground (Cardiff City, I seem to recall)
a wales/romania international in cardiff in 1993?
Quote:
some fool decided that it would be fun to fire a para red across the field to the stand opposite and in so doing killed someone there. At roughly the same period at a beach party in Cornwall another para red was discharged by someone who did not know the procedure and it shot across the beach horizontally, breaking someone's leg on its way.
Both of those incidents would be considered reckless endangerment (or manslaughter / gbh) and so no new legislation would be required. Indeed people have been prosecuted for firing flares at football matches.
Quote:
Following these two incidents the firing of distress flares of any sort for any other reason was made illegal.
can you substantiate that - whilst the MCA put out press releases saying it is illegal to use flares except in a distress situation the Legislation seems to only relate to making a distress signal "on a vessel".
Quote:
Originally Posted by CLP
Also, daft as it sounds, it's now illegal to enter Northern Ireland with flares on board. Quite what one is supposed to do when you enter a NI harbour/marina I don't know. I just ignore the stupid rule.
Sound like bollox to me... can you cite a reliable source (preferably the relevant statutory instrument/legislation) although any official source would be a start... in fact even an unofficial source. It sounds like something you made up/misinterpreted/over heard in a bar. NI commercial vessels are required to conform to the same MCA coding standards at the rest of the UK and are therefore legally required to carry flares.
I was a RYA trained flare demonstrator in the 1990s attending annual updating sessions at the Pains Wessex factories in Surrey and later on Salisbury Plain and we were told this on more than one occasion
You forget that flares are used by climbers and walkers as well as at sea. Firing one on land is just as much of a distress signal.
But such use is not protected or enshrined in law... (I think you'll also find that whilst most responsible boaters carry flares - very few climbers/walkers do).
I was a RYA trained flare demonstrator in the 1990s attending annual updating sessions at the Pains Wessex factories in Surrey and later on Salisbury Plain and we were told this on more than one occasion
Unfortunately when someone credible says something that seems plausible it is assumed to be factually accurate and then all the people there tell everyone else and so the myth gets propagated - in reality there appears to be no such legislation (unless on board a vessel)... one of the downsides of the internet is that such misinformation actually spreads even further and faster.
Unfortunately when someone credible says something that seems plausible it is assumed to be factually accurate and then all the people there tell everyone else and so the myth gets propagated - in reality there appears to be no such legislation (unless on board a vessel)... one of the downsides of the internet is that such misinformation actually spreads even further and faster.
If that is the case then it would also be illegal to set them off as a demonstration as well. Would the Merchant Shipping Act actually apply to someone not employed in merchant shipping stood in the middle of a field?
Edit:
It would seem that having a firework or distress flare at a sporting event became a specific offence under the Public Order Act of 1986 which would suggest that there wasn't already other legislation that could be used.
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I suspect that rib_imposter may have a valid point.
I don’t have access to the full legislation in relation to flares but a quick check of The Merchant Shipping (Distress Signals and Prevention of Collisions) Regulations 1996 shows that this legislation only applies to United Kingdom ships, seaplanes and hovercraft (Section 2). As far as this legislation is concerned, the use of a distress signal other than on a vessel is not specifically prohibited. I don’t know if this is the latest version of the Regulations so it may have changed. www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si1996/Uksi_19960075_en_1.htm
Sadly, because of my previous experiences as a civil servant with an enforcement role I wouldn’t necessarily believe what the MCGA or any other governmental body says in guidance either to its own staff or to the general public.
As mentioned, there is legislation elsewhere which covers the use of distress flares but it is quite possible that some uses of distress flares ashore and in the absence of an emergency may be not be illegal.
I do agree with Cornishman that these flares are dangerous and I won’t be letting any off again except in a genuine maritime emergency or on an official training course.
I wonder how Ellen MacCarthur and Michael Perham avoided prosecution at the end of their round the world trips.
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Yes but as dipper says the act referred to in that press release only applies at sea (the legislation is available to read on the OPSI website if you are having trouble sleeping.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dipper
I wonder how Ellen MacCarthur and Michael Perham avoided prosecution at the end of their round the world trips.
Common Sense / Public interest... ...I see why you're wondering!
Again, save the H&S lecture, but I witnessed TEPs being set off on bonfire night (with some common sense precautions, protection, stakes/string launching site etc) that expired in 1997!!!!!
Every one of them went off, the only observation was that the very old red parachute flares burned quite pink, and the handhelds burned very cleanly indeed. I have seen the very old "striker" style making an almighty mess, but these were very well behaved.
Interesting that only just TE pyros and even in-dates have been reported on here as being duds, yet these really old ones were all spot on.
There are a couple of posts that say letting a flair off is against the law, is it? To be against the law there would need to be an Act or statutory instrument stating that you can’t. I think this is an urban myth and it isn’t against the law.
Clearly not saying that we should be letting flares off all over the place, and if you do something stupid with one you might break other laws, but actually letting the flare off won’t be.
I think the post is really good, I have only seen the RNLI video which does not give the impression of heat or how bright they are. I think some gloves are heading their way to the flare box too.
Observations on letting off a red flare
). Thought I'd share my observations as it's the first time I've ever let one off.
However, encouraging how many calls Swansea coastguard got that night. 
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