Desperately searching for answers

[dazautomatics]

Hi all

Can anyone give advice on our dilemma? Apologies for the long description but please bear with us.

Whilst on a 2 year passage to New Zealand, we had to abandon our boat Sentito (a Seeker 31), 45 Miles off Finisterre on the 2nd of November. She was spotted adrift and salvaged by the Spanish maritime authority 18 days later and we drove back to northern Spain to take possession, until our insurers found out that the salvage cost were considerably higher than the insured value of the boat. At this point they decided, like insurance company’s do, that they would abandon the boat and get out of paying us on a technicality.

We decided to come straight back to the UK to fight the insurance resigned to the fact that sadly we would probably not see our boat again.After getting a good marine solicitor we settled down for an unpleasant battle with the insurers

Today my wife received a call from the insurance company after three weeks of complete silence explaining that they had negotiated with the Spanish and lowered the salvage fee and the money would clear in a few days. Then after repeating that they were not accepting liability they dropped the bomb that we were now on our own and needed to make arrangements to remove Sentito from the pier ourselves as soon as possible.

Great you might think but our boat is not worth much and has sustained a lot of damage including rudder failure. The port she was brought into has no facilities and she could have sustained more damaged on the unsheltered wall she has been moored to for the last month.

It cost us about 1000 pounds to drive down to the boat last time and we can’t afford to do it again to find the boat had sustained more damage. We are unsure of the cost of transportation to the UK but would estimate around 5/6K and we have the added complication of language difficulties we had already experienced in the far west of northern Spain. We are concerned that any more money we need to spend on the boats recovery would not be covered by the insurance even if we were successful in our claim and we are at this time trying to salvage what little money we have left. Plus it’s a week before Christmas, which is not helping matters.

We both love the boat very much and although we won’t be ocean sailing in Sentito after our experiences in 60 knots of wind, we would like to repair her and see her go to a good home.

If anyone has had experience of boat repair / transport from this part of the world or has any advice on dealing with insurance we would love to hear. Any sensitive information please contact me at sentito@hotmail.co.uk

Many thanks for your time and patience
Darren & Vicki

[jonic]

Dear Darren and Vicki

Very sorry to hear this. I had a long battle with insurers two years ago and may be able to give some general advice. (probably off the forum)Who is the broker and underwriter?

[Richard10002]

Darren and Vicki,

I think we heard your situation reported here. An awful thing to happen in the first place, and to then be let down by your insurers is catastrophic.

In 1999, ran my fathers bakery and one of the bakers got water in the elctrics of the oven such that it was a write off. I spoke to my solicitor before contacting the insurers and he advised me to employ a loss assessor, (I think that's what he was... I think the insured use assessors, and the insurers use adjusters).

The assessors first piece of advice was that we were not to discuss any element of the matter with the insurance company and that we were to refer them to him. he also said that they would get extremely angry, suggest that we didnt need an assessor, and press us to talk to them.

he was right... you could tell that they knew they were going to get away with nothing as soon as we referred them to the assessor, and they didnt!

So... I am assuming that there are assessors who specialise in marine insurance and I guess I am suggesting that you get hold of one. Assuming they exist, (and shipowners will make sure that there is a market), I am surprised that your lawyer hasnt suggested this.

Having said that, my experience of many lawyers is that they will continue to flog a dead horse for as long as their clients will pay them.... you would never be able to say that their advice was wrong or bad but, in practical terms, what they were doing was a waste of time and money.... If I have ever had a serious legal matter, i have always instructed my lawyer to get a barristers opinion on the situation sooner, rather than later. barristers tend to cut to the quick, tell it like it is, and give you the options.

Pointing you at an assessor or a barrister probably loses you as a client fairly quickly... I hope I'm wrong here.

Did your policy say anything about times of the year when you couldnt cross Biscay, or how many crew had to be on board?

I would be interested to know what the technicality was that they said meant they didnt have to pay you when they decided to abandon the boat in Spain.

I would also be interested to know why they had continued to negotiate with the Spanish over the salvage.... as I see it, they had nothing to gain - they had abandoned the boat and were paying you nothing, so no cost to them.

Negotiating the salvage fees down and agreeing to pay them will cost them money.... so they must have been forced into this situation for some reason.

and... having admitted liability for the salvage, how can they not admit liability for sorting the boat out for you.... I would have thought that they are liable for all or nothing.

I think we would all be interested to know who the insurers are as i want to know that, in a similar situation, my insurance company arent going to refuse to cough up.

That's my 2 pennorth.. get an assessor and, if appropriate, a barristers opinion.

Cheers

Richard

[Bajansailor]

That is very sound (IMHO) advice Richard!

I have had some experience here of dealing with insurance companies around the world re submitting marine cargo claims, and although there are some exemplary companies who are very fair and reasonable, there does appear to be many others who will try to find any loophole or technicality to avoid paying out on the claim.

Sentitos, it does sound like you have a good case in your favour, especially if you follow Richard's advice.

Good luck!

[Richard10002]

martin,

How would they go about finding an assessor, (if I am using the right term)? I'm sure I did a search for one a while ag and could find one, (cant recall why I was looking.

[Bajansailor]

Hello Richard - I just did a google, and found the info below on an Insurance Assessor's website. The first section is a useful description of assessors and adjusters, while also pointing out their differences.

XXXXXX are Insurance Loss Assessors with over fifteen years experience working on behalf of the general public. XXXXXX are not loss adjusters who protect the Insurance company's interests; instead we represent the policyholder.

Without XXXXXX you are left at the mercy of the Insurance Loss Adjusters. Loss Adjusters are appointed to protect the insurance company's interests, and minimise the amount paid on the insurance claim. Their fee is paid by the insurance company and they report to them. Typically, a loss adjuster will aim to reduce the claim by 20%. Whereas an Assessor is committed to maximising the settlement due to the Claimant.

Here is a website for one Assessor I found on a random search - http://www.assistedclaims.co.uk/
Please note that I have no connection with these folk whatsoever.

[Richard10002]

Brilliant.... I must be useless at Googling.

Hopefully Darren and Vicki will wake up feeling a bit more positive, and able to take a bit of control back.

[ironmaiden]

Hi Darren & Vicky
It's sad to hear that you have to go through all this cr*p.
When you take out insurance you do it for the sole reason to protect yourself should the unfortunate happen, as it did in your case. this just goes to enforce my opinion that EVERY insurance company is little more then approved and licesned swindlers.

You put your faith and hard earned cash into them only to be totaly and utterly let down, I not only hope that you win your case against them but from this episode they loose as much business as possible, if we the puplic were to con monies from people on this scale we would be prosecuted and imprisoned.

Good luck and I wish you all the best.

I dunno if I go along with "EVERY".................but some it seems almost certainly. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

[wayneA]

I'm really sorry to hear your news - after your trials in Biscay you shouldn't have to deal with this bull***t.

May I ask who the broker/insurer is - I think a number of people on this forum would like to know?

best wishes

Wayne