Desperately searching for answers

[Swagman]

Echo everyones sentiments. Have reposted a message on Cruiser Log and Cruisers Forum also asking is anyone is close to Cee and prepared to pop along and give you feedback. Have posted your email address and trust that's OK.
JOHN

[dazautomatics]

Thanks for the repsonse all

The insurance company have so far declined to cover us as they have stipulated that there cover excluded biscay crossings between 1st November and 31st March. Their argument is that we did not touch land in La Coruna and technically were still on passage through Biscay.

Thanks for the response. So far we have a contact in Vigo who may be able to do repairs etc and I have head from a nice chap who has offered to drive down from Coruna to check the boat for further damage.

We are interested in anyone else who has dealt with poor insurers and would be very interested to here how you dealt with them?

Once again thanks for the interest and I will, as soon as I get legal advice, be naming and shaming the parties involved.

Our hope it to keep the interest in the post up so we have a significant number of people understanding the pitfalls of marine insurance and that glossy advertisements in the yachting press do not amount to good service. Hopefully we can prevent a few people experiencing our nightmare.

Darren & Vicki

[absit_omen]

My heart really goes out to you. It is, indeed, a nightmare.

However, I reget that I think you are on to a loser. There is really nothing technical about what the insurers are saying. So far, the facts seem to be that the icident occurred beyond their deadline and you were still on passage. They drew the line and you were very, very unfortunate to have been forced into crossing it.

I would be amazed if they back down - whatever pressure you put on them. I think you need some expert legal advice.

Sorry.

[Richard10002]

I guess the hope is that one of 2 things could be decided:

1) once you are within a certain distance of a Port on the destination side of Biscay, you are deemed to have "crossed".

2) I am assuming that it would be accepted that they would have arrived in Coruna by the deadline, had they carried on... but by carrying on they would have endangered the vessel and their lives, so the decision to divert, and therefore not cross Biscay by the deadline, would be deemed to be prudent under the circumstances, and covered by some form of Force Majeure in the insureds' favour...... notwithstanding that the vessel was subsequently lost.

Again, I cant believe that this sort of situation hasnt arisen previously, and been tested in the Courts. Barring the rule which says that the facts are somewhat different to the precedents, (is it res ipsa loquitar? was it a case with a yellow Rolls Royce? cant remember), there should be some cases which provide an answer, one way or another.

I was half expecting there to be one, or more, legal bods here who might be able to trawl through some case searching database, and find something... we'll see.

[dazautomatics]

Hi all

We posted this dilemma as we needed advice from other boaties on this gray area, the insurer put this clause in our policy “No Biscay crossings between” but have not backed this up with and explanation in the terms and conditions so it can be used in many contexts.

We feel as well that this practice of putting very vague conditions is probably leaving many boat owners not insured when they believe they have full cover. A practice that needs to be highlighted.

Our concerns with this insurer:-

1. When contacted after the rescue they never mentioned this being a problem
2. The loss adjuster commented on there not being a problem when he took his statement a few days after.
3. During the 18 days between losing the boat and her salvage there was no mention of this clause, a claims form was dispatched and no negative feedback was received.
4. When the boat was found until the salvage fee being disclosed the loss adjuster was trying to bargain us into accepting money from the insurer to effect boat repairs ourselves
5. The loss adjuster commented a couple of hours after the salvage fee was disclosed, that our policy would probably not cover us, and they were actively seeking legal advice on abandoning the boat with the Spanish.

Upon receiving this advise I contacted the claims department and they shadowed this suggesting we did what we can to protect our personal effects, so we got our personal positions of the boat (Whilst the salvage boat looked the other way!) and returned home to seek legal help.

If they had been more decisive from the start we could have got legal help earlier and would probably still be in northern Spain. Allowing us to negotiate with the salvage boat for Sentito to be moved to a more sheltered mooring and allowing us to dry out the boat limiting the damage that is probably been done as she is moored on a exposed wall, her cabin was soaked and all the new bunk cushions were moldy.

The good news is that our house insurance has finally granted legal cover on this claim, so on return after the holidays our solicitor will be able to go full guns for the insurance company.

[Richard10002]

[ QUOTE ]
The good news is that our house insurance has finally granted legal cover on this claim, so on return after the holidays our solicitor will be able to go full guns for the insurance company.

[/ QUOTE ]

Great News!

[macd]

If you (or anyone else) is in dispute with your insurers, I strongly advise you to get in touch with the Financial Services Authority (www.fsa.gov.uk/). They have a branch which took over from the Insurance Ombudsman a few years ago. The ombudsman took consumer interests very much to heart, had no time at all for misleading small print or obscure and unfair practices. The insurers lived in fear of him -- honestly! I once had a claim (not yacht-related) which was flatly denied. I wrote back threatening them with the ombudsman and they instantly settled in full, much to the astonishment of my broker.

The old ombudsman's site is still on the web, and is easy to research for any disputed claims that might have parallels to your own: www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk

Again, would urge you to check this out. The service is (or used to be) free.

[TiggerToo]

I can second this. In a non-boaty related insurance matter, getting in touch with eth FAS/ombudsman seemed to provide the essential oil to smooth things out: matter settled in full to our advantage!

We are all behind you here and look forwards to the news that you have reached a satisfactory conclusion to your trial and tribulations

[Allan]

Hi Darren and Vikki, I have read through the above a few times and I feel you should have a slightly more optimistic view than at the start. Sorry I can't add any more to it but I think all the nice people on here can give us all a good feeling at this time of year.
I hope next year brings you all you would wish for yourselves and your family.
Today is the shortest day, they get longer and better from now on!
Peace and love from an old hippy,
Allan

[MrCramp]

Pleased to hear your house insurance will cover legal costs. Now you have a chance for a fresh start. Are you certain that your solicitor is capable of handling your claim. The average local solicitor is, in my experience and opinion, good for writing letters on a £XXX per letter basis, taking phone calls and reading letters received on a ...your guessed it £XXX per item basis, Most are not capable of taking on an aggresive insurance company. They also work on a long term basis and are unlikely to get an immediate response from any third party. You need to keep on top of anyone you appoint to act on your behalf. IMHO. If you go into this with your eyes open you are more likely to get a result. Sounds like you boat needs moving today/tommorow. Why don't you go back to your boat, plead abject poverty, get SWBO to turn on the water-works and see what is the lowest amount the salvage boat will take? Good Luck, sorry to hear your story.